Senate Democracy or Republic?

Hey,

I recently had a debate with a poster who insisted that the United States is not a democracy but a Republic - to which I said it is both. Is this a common thing in the United States - to not think you are a democracy...?

 

It is a widespread belief, every Amercian history book I read states the US is a Republic. However there is concern that our country is slipping more torwards a democracy. We are very concerned about protecting our rights, especially from government infringement. For example, with our Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. Our constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic.

 

I'm still not sure how exactly you define democracy. I mean we all describe countries like the United States (Republican or otherwise) as democracies while the people have free and open power to form their own government. Likewise many Republics aren't democracies - such as the Soviet Union, Iran and China...

 

In a democracy, the political minority is not necessarily protected (i.e 51% rules over 49%) - so it's essentially can be mob rule.

 

Given how often western nations talk about democracy & how they want other countries to adopt it, they must believe they already have it.

Since countries such as the US & UK adopt a majority rules voting system (in government, in elections etc), aren't they democracies?

 

No, the opposite. It's widespread to think we're a democracy and that's it.

 

Democracy and republic are not mutually exclusive. A republic at this point is just a state without a monarch. The U.S. is technically a liberal representative democracy and constitutional federal republic. The argument is semantics anyway. The terms are all but meaningless. The U.S. has a zealously protected, entrenched two-party system; gerrymandering in most states; voter disenfranchisement (not just the recent voter ID trend but commonly accepted things like felons not being able to vote); high incumbency rates despite low approval ratings; low voter turnout; virtually unlimited campaign spending; representatives and jurists who are much, much more inclined to listen to the people with the most money. Now, I'm no big-city lawyer, but I don't think that's really a democracy or "majority rule."

 

There is no way our country could be characterized as a democracy in any way through at least our first roughly 150 years.

 

No, I agree with you it is a constitutional democratic republic if we were to classify it. That's accurate.

 

What is this notion that 'democracy' is equivalent to 'mob rule'?

 

Definitions I was raised on:

Democracy: all (eligible) voters vote, majority rules (some Swiss cantons, for example)

Republic: all (eligible) voters vote for someone to represent them in a larger body. That person does not necessarily have to support the view of the majority of his/her district - "some" believe the representative is supposed to be more informed and make the best decision regardless of its popularity.

 

Loosely speaking, democracy means that the people being ruled choose who will rule them and the majority opinion is followed. What constitutes a majority varies widely depending on the electoral and governmental systems being used and a range of other factors. A republic can be a form of democracy, often characterised by the presence of an elected head of state, rather than a monarch, but again, covering a huge range of governmental systems, some democratic and others not.

 

See these aren't properly defined: I would say the first is "direct democracy" and the second is "representative democracy". A Republic is something completely different - normally just a state which has an elected head of state...

 

yeah i would say that a republic is a specific form of government whereas democracy is more like a quality that societies can have/be said to have

 

In a pure democracy, majority rules. The minority has no say in anything. In a democratic republic, while we do elect our officials and vote on issues, our rights are universal. The minority has the exact same rights as the majority.

 

monademofederocracy

 

But that doesn't necessarily happen in a direct democracy (also called a 'pure democracy') unless there is no constitution. I mean in truth it is no more 'majority oppresses' than any other democracy - see Switzerland. Not to mention not all Republics are democratic - like the Soviet Union, etc.

 

Didn't Princeton recently release a study wherein they showed that public opinion on common political issues has little to no correlation with with legislation passed? Strong support for what you just said (and I agree).

 

Technically speaking, UK is a constitutional monarchy.

 

Which is a democracy...