Demons and evil spirits: Do they exist?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Chris2, Aug 21, 2002.

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  1. Black_Magic_Wormie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2001
    star 3
    Remember the copy-cat killers? Two teenagers go off and kill their school mates in Colorada. They were fans of Marylin Manson, listened to his music; and their website reflected the music they listened to. They may have not been good people to start with. They may even of had a good homelife; but they learned how to do evil by all those sources mentioned above. And now we see that other teens learned from them, picked up their parent's guns, and shot their school mates as well. Evil can be learned...re: copy-cat killers.
  2. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    So Marilyn Manson gave them intstructions to kill people? I don't remember that from any of his songs.
  3. TheWraith Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    That's a crock of bull. You don't go out and kill based on listening to music. If you you kill someone in such a way (eg. Columbine) then you have deep psychological problems, and that has nothing to do with the music you listen to, or the movies you watch etc. etc.
  4. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I think it's possible that violent music could make the problem worse. But the problem would have to exist to begin with.
  5. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Wasn't the topic...

    Demons and evil spirits, do they exist?

    Not...

    Marilyn Manson: An overview of his music on todays youth.


    If demons do exist...why hasn't one appeared? Why no guest shot on Springer? Why? Because they, like god and satan, are brainwashing tools for ORDINARY PEOPLE to gain power and control over other people.

    To say that an invisible man is controlling you to do immoral acts is really reaching. At what point does personal responsibility go out the window? If you don't want to take the fall for something...you can always blame a demon?

    Religion is an archaic tradition whose time has come....and gone.


    But thats just my opinion.

    :D
  6. Lord_Darth_Bob Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2001
    star 4
    Some people need it and society will replace it with something else abhorent. I prefer stuffy Catholic dogma nobody really takes seriously to the nihilistic fadish postmodernist attitudes people couple with their materialism to go off and feel they're important.
  7. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    I think the reason God has angelic servants is partially as messangers or intimidiaries between himself and Mankind. According to the bible, if we actually *saw* God, we'd probably go nuts or explode or something, ala RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, since he's so powerful.
  8. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Would've liked to have responded earlier, but I was on another imposed sabbatical, hence my new icon.



    Do demons exist?

    Only those people who've never encountered one believe that, so what do you expect except of course they don't believe in them.

    I had a college professor that once referred to such supernatural notions as medieval superstition and nonsense.

    I unthinkingly assumed coming from such an intellectually learned authority that he must a priori be correct.


    However, (love that word), my prof wasn't there the night one of his medieval superstitions manifested and tried to take me out of this world.


    Are they real? You better believe it.



    "I think the reason God has angelic servants is partially as messangers or intimidiaries between himself and Mankind. According to the bible, if we actually *saw* God, we'd probably go nuts or explode or something, ala RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, since he's so powerful. "


    It is the literal power of love. God's love is so powerful that in the flesh our bodies can't come face to face, or in direct proximity, thus, Moses had to shield himself in the cleft of the rock only viewing God from behind in the distance. This is why Moses body also glowed in radiance. The rock is used because it was a foreshadowing of The Rock (not the scorpion king actor :) ), Christ Jesus, whom we muct all go through in directly addressing God.



  9. Jauhzmynn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    Hey Darth,

    Some think theydon't, but theyhaven't seen some english proffesors.<G> JK all kidding aside.
    Yep the buggers DO exsist. Seen a few(NBot (Not visually..hope to not see 'em that way. I'd throw something at 'em. :)). NOT very nice beings, they'll steal your parking spot in a nanosecond. Only one person can wup them is Jesus, and us through His authority.

    I'm being humours with it and no disrespect is intended. :D

    jauhzmynn
  10. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Demons? Nothing but dreams, scapegoats and boogeymen.

    Disagree? Show me one. Show me one trace of their existence. Show me one thing any demon has ever done.
  11. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    jauhzmynn ,

    When you're right your are right.

    The night I became a Christian my life was saved from the demonic by the Lord.

    Within in minutes I found out the demonic were real, and best of all that The Lord was real. I would've been murdered that night if not for Jesus direct and divine intervention.
    I literally owe Christ my life.

    I've had subsequent encounters/battles, more than I would like, but the only efficacious defense was in calling upon the name of the Lord.



  12. Theron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2000
    star 4
    Well, look at the world then and now. Wars fought every year, two world wars, genocides, politically motivated famine, deep worldwide religious and racial divisions, hatred, murder, systematic torture, the criminal subversion of mankind by drugs, just to name a few?could not this be a master plan of some powerful, evil force that is bent on driving mankind away from God and perhaps even to global suicide?

    A Professor named Russell said this ?At present, with arsenals of nuclear weapons estimated at seventy times the quantity needed to kill every living vertebrate on earth, we are stubbornly making preparations for a war that will profit no individual, nation, or ideology but will condemn thousands of millions to a horrible death. What force urges us down a path that is daily more dangerous? To whose advantage is the nuclear destruction of the planet? Only that force which from the beginning has with infinite cruelty and malice willed the destruction of the cosmos.?

    The professor gives his own answer in these words: ?The Devil has been defined as the spirit that seeks to negate and destroy God?s cosmos to the extent of his power. May not the force urging us to deploy nuclear weapons be the same force that has always striven to negate being itself? In this uttermost crisis of our planet, we cannot dismiss the possibility.?

    What some have to remember about Satan is that he is the original demon if he can manipulate and cause God's perfect angels to rebel against God, what do you think Satan and his demons can do to mankind.

    Most of you probably know this scripture Rev 12:9,12 "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him...On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.?

    The Devil and his demons know they will soon be destroyed, so is it possible that they want people not to believe in them, make themselves out as something fake and made up to discredit God at the sametime. The thing about demons is that they want worship that belongs only to God, but since they can't have that worship for long, they want mankind destroyed along with them.

    To me Demons are not to be taken lightly, they are wicked spirit creatures who hate God and anyone who chooses to follow him. They also hate mankind as a whole and they want to see us all destroyed. Not someone I would like to take lightly at all.

    "You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder"

    Some people blame the Devil or demons for what they themselves do. In contrast, the Bible shows that humans often bear much of the blame for the badness they experience, whether at the hands of other humans or as a result of their own conduct.

    As you can tell I believe there are demons out there.
  13. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Well, according to the teachings of the Catholic Church, yes, they do exist. I believe they do, too. I have heard that over in Italy, and even in this country, there are still exorcisms. Not to mention, I think there is some force that brought evil into the world, I believe, like St. Thomas, that human beings are naturally ordered to the good. However, their perception of the good can be altered to see evil as good, but soemthing must be there to alter our perceptions.

    That something is Satan. I don't like the fact that there is evil in the world, but there is.


  14. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Connemara,

    Exorcisms still occur, I wouldn't call them common from a statistical vantage, neither are they a rarity, but really you're not going to hear too much about them publicly for privacy reasons, and additionally most simply aren't documented at all. Basically, any time the media get hold of such a story the treatment is asperse, sarcastic, and skeptical. I've seen this sort of journalistic approach to an event which by all standards should have been unquestionable due to the exceptional body of eye-witness testimony.

    I've a friend who took part in an impromptu exorcism fairly recently, a session that occured abruptly unexpected in one of the churches offices. He, and a couple other men were present, speaking with a woman awaiting the Pastor's arrival. Jay,(as I'll refer to my friend) said they were all having a normal conversation until the pastor was heard down the hall, at which point the woman's voice began to deepen, startling him and the other men present in the room, and her voice continued to deepen gutterally in accord with the pastor's approach. As the Pastor entered the room the woman pointed directly at the clergyman and began an accusatory litany of personal sins committed by him. The Pastor's response was to inform her that his sins were forgiven under the shed blood of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, which immediately halted the verbal assault involving his sins, although she began listing the sins of the other men in the office. The Pastor again silenced her, at which point, Jay said he and everyone else stood in muted shocked awe as the Pastor's body completely levitated up off the office floor about 2-3 feet. This instigated an immediate exorcism on the spot.

    In similar situations and environements there isn't going to be any documentation, nor does the Church seek publicity dealing with issues which generate sensationalistic treatments of the subject matter or to simply open the door to unwanted exposures of damaging ad hoc ridicule and skepticism, inflicted upon either the formerly possessed, those personally engaged in the process, or the larger congregation or denomination. Discretion is utmost.


    Exorcism's and demonic activity are not events for the publics entertainment, and involve very real individuals who been through dangerous ordeals, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, and often times physically. This is inclusive of all parties involved, be it the possessed or opressed individual, their families and friends, and those participants in the ceremony and/or rites involved in combatting the demonic.


    I would recommend the book by Fr. Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican's exorcist, An Exorcist Tells His Story, if anyone is interested in researching the subject.

    It would also be advisable that anyone delving into this have a faith placed in Christ as well. This isn't intended as a scare tactic, but the voice of experience. When one ventures into the supernatural it isn't like an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I guess, although I've never watched the program). You are dealing with insidiously malevolent beings that are foreign to our understanding, of greater intelligence and by definition older than time.

    Yes, Virginia there is a devil.

    No, Virginia, you really don't want the proof.









  15. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Every time i have tried to sell my soul, the devil hasnt appeared. Maybe he thinks my soul is worthless.


    I am inclined to go along with the College Prof, Devils and Demons are nothing but superstitions.



    Side question, Chris2 can probably answer this:
    Wasn't the devil given his current appearence by the church to convince various pagans that they were worshipping him(the wood god Pan) instead of God.
  16. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    The devil is a shapeshifter, sort of the father of all transvestities and costume makers. :p


  17. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Actually i was asking the historical reason why the Chrurch created the image of the devil as half man half goat with horns and a goatee, not whether the actual Pagan god puck was the devil.
  18. phantom31415 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    Actually i was asking the historical reason why the Chrurch created the image of the devil as half man half goat with horns and a goatee, not whether the actual Pagan god puck was the devil.

    It's possible. The Catholic Church never let their religion hinder their own ends. (No offence to the members of the now-much-improved Catholic Church.)

    The Bible says that before his fall, Satan was a beautiful angel of light. There's nothing really about his appearance now, if it's any different.
  19. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Not that you're question was directed to me, but I can only say that I don't know the historicity of the image of the devil, or where it was derived from.

    The chronologically earliest account within the Bible, the book of Genesis, describes him as serpentine. Verses involving the angelic orders depict beings with an appearance that is often an amalgamation between human and animalian characteristics.

    Early cultures such as Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian all have representative figures with semblances that are a mix of human and animal features.

    Later cultures, be it Hindu, Japanese, Chinese, African, Southern, Northern, and Central American all have similar deities. It seems to be universal.


    There is certainly a symbolic representation involved, and crossing the demonic as animal/beastial with human/intelligent, has much to do with our own nature, as abstract artistic reflections.

    Still, the universality of the images may be a reflection of demonic and angelic beings encountered by humans mano e mano.

    From my own encounters and those of individuals I've met, either clergy or lay person, there is a great deal of variety among the demonic forms witnessed, whereas most of the angelic are of a more routine conformity.

    The vast majority of people I've interviewed or conversed with who've eye-witnessed actual angels describe them fairly much the same, generally 12-14 feet in heighth, and usually very attractive. Some have been described as actually having wings, and some did not, looking only as overly large human beings. One reported an angel of about 3 feet tall accompanied by two others described as 12 feet, or so. The only real differance mentioned by those I've personally spoken with is height range and whether or not they had actual wings.

    Biblical passages describe greater variety amongst the angelic hosts, but here I am only recounting descriptions given to me personally.


    The demonic on the other hand are described in much greater variety, as shadows (which I've witnessed) sliding across walls and ceilings, gargoyle like faces, and changing from one form to another, as in from that of a familiar person's form that morphes into that of something more stereotypically evil, such as a large black shadowy creature with fierce red eyes. I'm personal friends with a pastor who has seen both a black robed entity, which he described as "the angel of death," (which may not be demonic), to a literal red-faced, horn-headed grimacing demon. One lady described a demon she encountered as an incredibly handsome man. Another woman described a beautiful being of light that she initially thought was Christ or God, but was revealed to be malevolent. These are descriptions of visable manifestations. Generally, the demonic do not reveal a form, remaining unseen, which is more efficacious to their purposes.


    It may be simply that the forms of the visable manifestations are chosen intentionally for terror value, out of whatever form the entity believes will most horrify the particular victims chosen.

    Do the demonic have an actual underlying, more permanent form? I don't know.

    From my personal experience I have no reason whatsoever to doubt in ages past that a demonic entity couldn't have manifested visably as something akin to Pan, or Anubis, from Egyptian mythology, for example.
  20. WormieSaber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2000
    star 5
    Demons are spirits. They don't live in the physical world, and as such, are restricted to the the laws of the spiritual world. And which is why one can't see them.
  21. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    What would those laws be?

    I've seen them, so, I'd be curious to know which laws were broken.
  22. DarthYama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 4
    Religions have been around for a VERY long time. Before the first settlers to North America crossed the Bering Strait.
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