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PT Did Anakin actually want to fight Obi-Wan

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Cyn, Jun 29, 2014.

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Did Anakin actually want to fight Obi-Wan

  1. No, not at all

    5.7%
  2. Yes, he wanted to kill him

    28.6%
  3. Deep down he didn't want to fight him but felt it necessary

    51.4%
  4. Consciously would have spared him, but subconsciously wanted him dead

    14.3%
  1. Cael-Fenton

    Cael-Fenton Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2006
    I think that's a misinterpretation of that comment. I think he means the one "doing the inevitable thing that he has to do but he really doesn’t want to have to do" is Obi-Wan, not Anakin.

    It wasn't just a matter of being forced (from his POV) into killing Obi-Wan by the circumstances, ie that Obi-Wan showed up, refused to back off and then drew first. It was more than that. Yes, Anakin didn't really want to fight Obi-Wan, but only in the sense that he didn't Obi-Wan to show up at all. I think he knew that there was no chance Obi-Wan would go along with what he'd done (He knew it was wrong, as the tears on the Mustafar balcony show). Obi-Wan was his conscience. As is clear not only from the fact that every previous occasion he'd been naughty, Obi-Wan was absent/unconscious, but also from the symbolism of carrying Obi-Wan with Palpatine at his side telling him to leave the guy behind.

    Once Obi-Wan shows up, his very presence threatens to destroy the rationalisations Anakin 's constructed for himself. The precise moment he does appear is significant: just as Padmé's rejected his delusions ("because of what you've done; what you plan to do!"). We're supposed to see Obi-Wan standing at the top of that ramp as the embodiment of the pangs of conscience for which Padmé pleads but which Anakin's almost-successfully-but-not-quite deluded himself into rationalising away (listen for the slight hesitation/stammer as he says of Palpatine "I---I can overthrow him!"). So he *has* to kill him. He *entirely* wants to. Not in the sense of physical self-defence, but to preserve his fantasies; otherwise he'd be psychologically forced to face the horror of *what he's done*.

    anakinfansince1983, there's a significant sequence of The Duel which perhaps you don't fully recall. When they're in the mining facility control room, on top of the conference table, he grabs Obi-Wan's throat with his metal hand and Obi-Wan's right hand (holding his saber) with his other. He starts throttling him while forcing Obi-Wan's own blade towards his face. The frame goes to a close-up of his face: at first he's just glaring down at Obi-Wan, but as he tightens his grip on Obi-Wan's neck and the choking noise Obi-Wan is making grows fainter, his face twists and his lips move silently. The awful murderousness Hayden emanates there is pitch-perfect.

    The intensity of his desire to kill Obi-Wan (and not just with a lightsaber or Force choking, but literally his bare hands) which is apparent from that shot IMO can't be explained by saying he felt forced by the circumstances, that he felt it was what he must do, but didn't really want to deep down.
     
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  2. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    The confrontation with Obi-Wan was really interesting. As warped as Vader was (mercilessly slaughtering Jedi, younglings, and the Separatists), he did not immediately engage Obi-Wan. In fact, if Obi-Wan didn't push it, I don't think Vader would have fought him, even despite his theory that Obi-Wan was turning Padme. It's Obi-Wan's sense of duty that encourages him to destroy the person he once considered his brother. To me, Vader has to constantly reassure himself to engage Obi-Wan, up until his hatred makes its peak at his scarring.
     
  3. Darth Cyn

    Darth Cyn Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Yeah, even the way he shouts "I hate you" after having his limbs amputated by Obi-Wan sounds more like he felt betrayed rather than he was just angry that Obi-Wan beat him.
     
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  4. Zer0

    Zer0 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Did Anakin want to do any of the horrible things he ended up doing? I don't think so, he just felt he was the one making all the right decisions and everyone else was wrong, but yeah at the very end of the fight they were well past the point of caring.

    Not to mention Anakin was a bit off his rocker at that point to begin with.
     
  5. trip2boy

    trip2boy Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 26, 2014
    I believe that Anakin had to kill Obi-Wan, no matter what, because remember that Sidious had said, and convinced due to Anakin's confusion, that all the Jedi, including Obi-Wan, were now enemies of the Empire.
    As much as Anakin, in the natural Sith way, wanted to kill Sidious, he DID have loyalty to the Empire. Therefore, due to him being consumed by his rage and the Dark Side, he was practically blind and wanted to kill Obi-Wan, again, not because he wanted to, but because it was his duty to the Empire. I believe he had no problem in eradicating his former master, as he most likely viewed it as a mission, not a big, dramatic conflict. Remember, he HAD just told Padme before the duel that only his new powers could save her, as he was arrogant and again, blinded. Anakin had a large amount of loyalty to Palpatine, and so therefore trusted him more (before his immolation at the hands of Kenobi) than Obi-Wan. He believed everything that Palpatine said, including the part about Kenobi, as Anakin stated in the Battle of the Heroes that from his point of view the Jedi, including Obi-Wan, were evil. Thus my conclusion is that Anakin wholeheartedly wanted to get Obi-Wan out of his way. Remember, the only reason Anakin turned was to save his wife.
     
  6. Hammer_Head

    Hammer_Head Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2013
    I think Anakin wanted to fight him. For a long time Anakin complained that Obi-Wan was holding him back, and he was frustrated with him in AOTC, and wanted to prove that he was better than Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan often condescended to Anakin trying to put him in his place as well, and I think that regardless of their close relationship there was a lot of built up animosity that Anakin had for Obi-Wan and he was ready to prove himself. I'm not sure deep down if he wanted to kill him or not, but that was the only way to prove his superiority.
     
  7. hamad138

    hamad138 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2014
    He had to remember, palpatine had said if jedi and senat find the truth, they will kill them in 1 second
     
  8. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 21, 2011
    But also Anakin told Padme that they could only hope that Obi-Wan was still loyal to the Chancellor, which implies that he didn't want Obi-Wan to be hunted down
     
  9. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014

    Maybe he only told her that to keep her mind at ease. After all, since Anakin lied to the Council (at least didn't come clean) about his relationship with Padme, he's somewhat experienced in lying.
     
  10. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 21, 2011

    True, but I do think that at the very least, he didn't want to fight Obi-Wan deep down. I'm sure he told her that to keep her mind at ease, but maybe also to convince himself.And when Vader says "I understand, Master" after Palpatine says even Obi-Wan is a traitor, it doesn't sound like Vader is too thrilled about that. It's kind of like a kid saying "I understand, Mom" when told to do something.
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It's interesting to see the novel's take on the confrontation:

     
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  12. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Anakin had definitely been lifting in that passage. I can tell that he just got done benching like 345 right before talking to Padme.
     
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  13. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 21, 2011

    Sounds like he could be trying to justify it to himself.
     
  14. PodracingSkywalker

    PodracingSkywalker Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2014
    No. He was willing to let him go, if he either went off on his own, or joined him. Obi-Wan refused, and so Anakin figured he was left with no choice. This was pretty obvious, I felt.
     
  15. Legacy Jedi Endordude

    Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2012
    I think Anakin wanted Obi Wan to join him, but I think one he saw Obi Wan, that thought went out of his mind, and he became anger filled, and felt it was nessisary to murder his old master.
     
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  16. zompusbite

    zompusbite Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2014
    Based on RotS novel :
    “It’s like—it’s like—” Tears brimmed again. “I don’t even know who you are anymore …”
    “I’m the man who loves you,” he said, but he said it through clenched teeth. “I’m the man who would do anything to protect you. Everything I have done, I have done for you.”
    “Anakin …” Horror squeezed her voice down to a whisper: small, and fragile, and very young. “… what have you done?”
    And she prayed that he wouldn’t actually answer.
    “What I have done is bring peace to the Republic.”
    “The Republic is dead,” she whispered. “You killed it. You and Palpatine.”
    “It needed to die.”
    New tears started, but they didn’t matter; she’d never have enough tears for this. “Anakin, can’t we just … go? Please. Let’s leave. Together. Today. Now. Before you—before something happens—”
    “Nothing will happen. Nothing can happen. Let Palpatine call himself Emperor. Let him. He can do the dirty work, all the messy, brutal oppression it’ll take to unite the galaxy forever—unite it againt him. He’ll make himself into the most hated man in history. And when the time is right, we’ll throw him down—”
    “Anakin, stop—
    “Don’t you see? We’ll be heroes. The whole galaxy will love us, and we will rule. Together.”
    “Please stop—Anakin, please, stop, I can’t stand it …”
    He wasn’t listening to her. He wasn’t looking at her. He was looking past her shoulder.
    Feral joy burned from his eyes, and his face was no longer human.
    “You …”
    From behind her, calmly precise, with that clipped Coruscanti accent: “Padmé. Move away from him.”
    “Obi-Wan?” She whirled, and he was on the landing ramp, still and sad. “No!”
    “You,” growled a voice that should have been her love’s. “You brought him here …”
    She turned back, and now he was looking at her.
    His eyes were full of flame.
    “Anakin?”
    “Padmé, move away.” There was an urgency in Obi-Wan’s voice that sounded closer to fear than Padmé had ever heard from him. “He’s not who you think he is. He will harm you.”
    Anakin’s lips peeled off his teeth. “I would thank you for this, if it were a gift of love.”
    Trembling, shaking her head, she began to back away. “No, Anakin—no …”
    “Palpatine was right. Sometimes it is the closest who cannot see. I loved you too much, Padmé.”
    He made a fist, and she couldn’t breathe.
    “I loved you too much to see you! To see what you are!”
    A veil of red descended on the world. She clawed at her throat, but there was nothing there her hands could touch.
    “Let her go, Anakin.”
    His answer was a predator’s snarl, over the body of its prey. “You will not take her from me!”
    She wanted to scream, to beg, to howl, No, Anakin, I’m sorry! I’m sorry … I love you but her locked throat strangled the truth inside her head, and the world-veil of red smoked toward black.
    “Let her go!”
    “Never!”
    The ground fell away beneath her, and then a white flash of impact blasted her into night.
    Obi-Wan knelt beside Padmé’s unconscious body, where she lay limp and broken in the smoky dusk. He felt for a pulse. It was thin, and erratic. “Anakin—Anakin, what have you done?”
    In the Force, Anakin burned like a fusion torch. “You turned her against me.”
    Obi-Wan looked at the best friend he had ever had. “You did that yourself,” he said sadly.
    “I’ll give you a chance, Obi-Wan. For old times’ sake. Walk away.”
    “If only I could.”
    “Go some place out of the way. Retire. Meditate. That’s what you like, isn’t it? You don’t have to fight for peace anymore. Peace is here. My Empire is peace.”
    “Your Empire? It will never have peace. It was founded on treachery and innocent blood.”
    “Don’t make me kill you, Obi-Wan. If you are not with me, you are against me.”
    “Only Sith deal in absolutes, Anakin. The truth is never black and white.” He rose, spreading empty hands. “Let me take Padmé to a medcenter. She’s hurt, Anakin. She needs medical attention.”
    “She stays.”
    “Anakin—”
    “You don’t get to take her anywhere. You don’t get to touch her. She’s mine, do you understand? It’s your fault, all of it—you made her betray me!”
    “Anakin—”
    Anakin’s hand sprouted a bar of blue plasma.
    Obi-Wan sighed.
    He brought out his own lightsaber and angled it before him. “Then I will do what I must.”
    “You’ll try,” Anakin said, and leapt.
    Obi-Wan met him in the air.
    Blue blades crossed, and the volcano above echoed their lightning with a shout of fire.

    Based on Dark Lord - The Rise of Darth Vader novel :
    Padme and Obi-Wan were the ones who had sentenced him to his black-suit prison.
    Sentenced by his wife and his alleged best friend, their love for him warped by what they had perceived as betrayal. Obi-Wan, too brainwashed by the Jedi to recognize the power of the dark side; and Padme, too enslaved to the Republic to understand that Palpatine's machinations and Anakin's defection to the Sith had been essential to bringing peace to the galaxy! Essential to placing power in the hands of those resourceful enough to use it properly, in order to save the galaxy's myriad species from themselves; to end the incompetence of the Senate; to dissolve the bloated, entitled Jedi order, whose Masters were blind to the decay they had fostered.
    And yet their Chosen One had seen it; so why hadn't they followed his lead by embracing the dark side?
    Because they were too set in their ways; too inflexible to adapt.
    Vader mused.
    Anakin Skywalker had died on Coruscant.
    But the Chosen One had died on Mustafar.
    Blistering rage, as seething as Mustafar's lava flows, welled up in him, liquefying self-pity. This was what he saw behind the mask's visual enhancers: bubbling lava, red heat, scorched flesh. He had only wanted to save them! Padme, from death; Obi-Wan, from ignorance. And in the end they had failed to recognize his power; to simply accede to him; to accept on faith that he knew what was best for them, for everyone!
    Instead Padme was dead and Obi-Wan was running for his life, as stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose ...
    Clenching his right hand, he cursed the Force. What had it ever provided him but pain? Torturing him with foresight, with visions he was unable to prevent. Leading him to believe that he had great power when he was little more than its servant.
    But no longer, Vader promised himself. The power of the dark side would render the Force subservient, minion rather than ally.

    Anakin knew that what he've done was wrong but he did it. Why ? Because he decided that the life of the Jedi Order, the Separatist council, the entire Galaxy itself didn't worth Padme's life. Sidious influenced him, but he "choose" to do it. He have really "hoped" that Obi-wan had died on Mustafar because he knew that Obi-wan would have not let him do what he wanted to do and would have behaved like a Jedi, not joined him to the dark side. Obi-wan served the Force and Anakin served the dark side. The confrontation was inevitable despite the feelings that they shared yet at that time. This is why the duel was so long compared to that of Yoda against Sidious. They were still hesitant. But the more the duel continued, the more Anakin let his emotions (anger, hatred, outrage, sorrow...) take control of him while Obi-wan, still hesitant to kill his 'so-called' best friend (fearing to kill and/or being killed), only backed off and defended. Finally, the murderous intentions of Anakin had reached such a level that it wasn't aware of his own safety anymore . Obi-wan, at the same time, have succed to let go of his attachment toward Anakin and allowed the Force to decide their fates. The result we know: Anakin defeated and dismembered, suffering terribly as his body is being ravaged by flames and heartbreaking Obi-wan leaving him there and taking Padme with him to Polis Massa.
    Thanks for reading me.
     
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  17. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I chose the third option.
     
  18. Redimet

    Redimet Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2014
    God I wish this all could have come across in the movie. It does to an extend but not nearly as well as it does in these novels.
     
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  19. zompusbite

    zompusbite Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2014
    That's why novels are made : for better description and better understanding of the story and its caracters.
     
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