Did Anakin Discover Plagueis's Secret on Mustafar?

Did Anakin directly influence his midi-chlorians to sustain his own life on the slopes of Mustafar? If he did, it sounds as though with a purely rudimentary knowledge of the dark side, Anakin discovered Darth Plagueis's secret.

 

I don't know if I'd dig that deep into it. He was barely hanging on to life when Sidious found him and Vader was lucky he did. Perhaps he used a bit of the force to help sustain him, but I really don't think he stumbled on any secret. It was a matter of time for him and if Sidious hadn't found him, that would have been it for him.

 

Yes. And that's what also helps him transition even more to the dark side. He's using the medicholoreans for selfish purposes. In ROTJ, he could have done the same and held on for a bit longer of a life. But when he realizes what Yoda was trying to teach him all along, he lets go and tells Luke that it's no longer necessary for him to be a physical presence. He's going to let go and give in to the will of the force, instead of trying to bend it once more. Good observation.

 

Qui-gon also said that the midi-chlorians exist in the cells of the body, and that a force sensitive person could use them. Well, how could he call on the force if half of his body has been burned due to lava, which would greatly diminish his cell count.

 

with half a body left you only need half the midi-chlorians. it's a pro-rated thing

 

I don't think so, or he wouldn't have needed Sidious anymore. It is possible however that Sidious used the technique to keep Vader alive, but that's guesswork.

 

Nah. Anakin was kept alive for his own will to survive. I don't think it had to do with Plaugeis. Besides, he'd have to be strong enough to do it and at that point, he's not. He's barely alive when Palpatine finds him. Some people can survive what would be fatal burn injuries and they don't have the Force. Just the will to survive.

 

I wondered about this... not after the fight but before it, because Anakin tells Padme about his "new powers".

We never see Anakin kill Wat Tambor. At one point I speculated on whether Anakin almost killed Tambor but left him barely alive, then experimented with the dark side to see if he could revive him.

Of course, what Anakin says about his powers in that scene could easily be chalked up to hubris and arrogance. He also says that he's more powerful than Palpatine, which is unlikely at that point, and Lucas has said that Palpatine is the strongest Force-user in the saga.

 

I don't think Anakin discovered a secret per'se, because theI don't htink it's something that can be discovered or taught. It njust needs to happen at the spur of hte moment. I mean, what is the key to immortality (that qui gon seemingly discovered). it turns out, it's just leading a pure life and thus becoming one with the force once you die. So to avoid death, i dont think requires some special spell or process, such as in harry potter, but just will or something that happens at that exact time.

Also, it was anakin's DESTINY as the chosen one to bring balance to the force, and since he hadn't FULFILLEd that yet, the will of the force just kept him alive until his deed was done (ROTJ). Or at leat for that moment until sidious put the helmet on him. Then, once he finally killed sidius, the force no longer needed to keep him alive, so he died without his helmet.

Some say anakin should be more powerful since he was the chosen one and had the highest midochlorian count. Well, midochlorians are what connect you with the force. So maybe, it wasn't htat anakin was to become powerful and USE the force such as yoda (not saying he didnt use the force, but it seems that some are implying that he should have more to be recognized as the chosen one). Instead, he was so connected with the force do to his large amount of midichlorians that he almost became one with it, subconsciously. The will of the force was being carried out through HIM, not the other way around.

 

Sorry, but no. If becoming a Force ghost was just based on living a pure life, there would be Force ghosts as far as the eye could see.
And if it just took willpower to "cheat death", all would be immortal. Other characters have a will too!!!!!!

 

Well let me rephrase what I said. It's just being a completely selfless being to become a force ghost. how to retain his identity after death and absorption into the Force, a process which requires the attaining of a state of unconditional compassion it's not like a process with consciouss tasks and such, like a math problem. It's just a state of being or achievement, almost.

and just because i think it is something like extreme will, doesn't mean everyone can do it. anakin did it because he was anakin. he needed to stay alive. and my theory is that it wasn't him saying, 'oh. i need to stop these lava wounds and don't die. let me use the force.' it was just him needing to stay alive and clinging on with all his will, and ultimately the FORCe was USING him, not he using the force. If he died, he could never fulfill the prophecy and where would we be. the force needed him to stay alive, he needed to stay alive, a path to cheat death through the midochlorians was taken.

 

There seems to be 2 schools of thought regarding Anakin's survival on Mustafar.

1. The Force kept him alive. He was the Chosen One, and it was impossible for him to die before he completed his destiny.

2. Anakin kept himself alive by using the dark side of the Force. He used the Force in some way to sustain his life.

It is unclear from the movies if Anakin knew Palpatine is no his way, but from the RotS novel, Obiwan felt the Emperor on his way, so it's likely that Anakin knew as well. People that say that Anakin used the dark side to keep himself alive never seem to take the next step. They just say Anakin used the dark side to sustain his life, or Anakin's hatred kept him alive. The logical conclusion is that if he used the dark side, he used the Force to keep him alive so thereby using his midi-chlorians to keep him alive which sounds very fimilar to what Plagueis's secret was all about.

The people that believe that the Force did not allow Anakin to die, because he had a special destiny, well then isn't it the same thing? A person's connection to the Force is their midis so the Force used Anakin's midis to sustain his life. The difference is that Anakin didn't do it himself and he had no bearing on the process. Instead, the Force utilized a Sith technique to keep Anakin alive. It seems logical as well because the dark side was dominating everything at that point and the secret of Darth Plagueis was indeed very real. Qui Gonn's beliefs that there was only one way to actual immoratality also appears false if that was how Anakin was kept alive.

 

In the saga, the Force never acts in such a direct fashion.

 

According to current canon, it is something that has to be learned. QGJ cannot be the first Jedi, over the course of 25,000 years, to learn the concept of unconditional compassion. Even assuming there's something wrong with the PT era Jedi, as many do, if you go back to the earlier eras, don't you think there were some compassionate Jedi back then as well? Where are their Force ghosts?

QGJ learned it from a Shaman of the Whills. Yoda and Obi-Wan learned it from Qui-Gon. This is canon.

Which means it has something to do with his power, and not merely the fact that he willed it to be so.

Also, as I have said many times before, according to Dark Lord, the "cheat death" thing is different from keeping someone alive.

 

Yes, it does. The Force creates Anakin so the Force can be balanced. That's pretty direct.

Cheating death and sustaining life are different though together they make up the total secret. In the RotS novel, Palpatine is like, "If you could create life than influencing midi-chlorians to sustain life would be a small matter wouldn't it?"

 

That quote implies a connection between creating life and extending life. "Cheating death" is different.

Now I gots to go. The spice is calling meeeeeeeeee

 

Cheating death is a never ending version of extending life.

 

A Jedi can become a Force ghost is they are selfless, truly selfless. If they are unattached. If they are truly compassionate. The Jedi who died weren't as such. Which is why we never see them. Qui-gon was. Obi-wan and Yoda had to teach them this. They in turn taught Yoda. Plagueis just manipulated Midichlorians to stop death. What that entails is unknown.

I think that what Anakin did wasn't the same as what Plagueis did. Sure, he talked about new powers. But he's talking more about his willingness to embrace the dark side, which comes across as something different from what he was taught. What he has used.

 

I heartily agree with you...

I believe that the Force kept Anakin alive on Mustafar...he couldn't die is right...he DID need to finish his destiny first!

 

Huh? I'm confused.

Anyway, I don't believe that Qui-Gon ( even though he is the visionary of the saga ) is the only truly selfless Jedi seen in 25,000+ years. Selflessness may be a requirement of the Force ghost ability, but the other requirement is knowledge of the path itself, and this was discovered by Qui-Gon.
I don't think Yoda needed to hear a lecture from Qui-Gon on the topics of compassion or seflessness.

 

Not if the choice to create Anakin was consciously made by the Sith, who used the Force.

We know Plagueis could sustain life. We know Sidious claims that Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew, so it is reasonable to suppose that Sidious could sustain life. We know Sidious claims that "to cheat death is a power only one has achieved" and that it is a "secret".
The "one" referred to is not Plagueis.
To cheat death, in this context, seems to mean the ability to "survive death" and remain in corporeal form. It is thus something more than indefinitely sustaining life.

 

Who was?

 

This is one of those things that is just left in the air, so everyone can speculate.

My take on it is that Anakin was able to use the force to sustain his life until someone came by and helped him. The hate he had for all that just happened was at its peak, so he definitely was filled with the Dark Side and possibly tapped into something.

For timeline sake, how long was it till the Emperor arrived after he got toasted??

 

We don't know yet. Probably someone from the ancient times, at least going by Dark Lord. Maybe it will be revealed in the Plagueis novel , or the show ( unlikely ).

 

Yes, Anakin used the dark side to cheat death and sustain his life. Did he know Palpatine was on his way? It's unclear. I assume that it was a Band Aid fix and that judging by the need for the suit, he wasn't going to last forever, but Anakin was burned alive and and had three of his four limbs removed. He kept himself alive by using the Force, by minipulating the midi-chlorians. What do you call that besides Plagueis's secret? Anakin suffered injuries that could kill someone but instead lived to tell about it.

And by the time the Emperor arrived, it couldn't have been more than a few hours.