Did Anakin know Sidious was actually the leader of the separatists?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by My favorite Ithorian, Nov 11, 2005.

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  1. My favorite Ithorian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 1
    After seeing the dvd, I still don't know. When Anakin goes to kill the separatists on Mustafar, does he know that Sidious was secretly behind the entire operation?

    He must have suspected, I guess...after all, he knew that Maul and Dooku were Sith lords, and apprentices of his new master, right? And they were both involved with the separatists. Is it possible that Anakin knows Sidious was the Mastermind behind the separatists Alliance, and understands that this conspiracy was necessary in order to gain control of the Republic...
  2. emporergerner Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    star 4
    I think Anakin figured it out.




    Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith
  3. Force-Keeper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2004
    star 5
    He knows, he just doesn't care at the time. He's mad at Palaptine and wants to kill him, but then any chance of saving Padmè will be lost.
  4. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Of course he does once he learns Palpatine is Sidious. So Anakin was aware of this well before Mustafar. But you see, when Anakin sides with Palpatine he sees the Jedi as evil. And so if Palpatine created the war and the mirror of the separatists to descimate the Jedi, at this point Anakin was okay with it.
  5. Greedo_forever Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    Well, at FIRST Anakin wasn't too okay with it:

    At the scene where Anakin finds out that Palpatine is a Sith Lord:

    Palpatine: "Are you going to kill me?"

    Anakin: "I would certainly like to!"
  6. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    And then Palpatine turned up the lies and manipulative power. I can't imagine how Anakin showed the restraint to not kill him when you actually think about all that Palpatine did to his life and the life of everyone in the galaxy.
  7. My favorite Ithorian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 1
    See, that's why I can't comprehend that Anakin joined Sidious. It works, except for that bit. Anakin hates the separatists more than anything! But I guess you're right, he has to know it.
  8. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    It's all because of Padme. That's really it. I can see, from Anakin's perspective, to kill mace or at least injure him so Palpatine wouldn't die. But then completely turning his back on the Jedi is where I feel perhaps a bit more could've been done.
  9. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    He knows it when he's sent to Mustafar, for sure. ;)
  10. Greedo_forever Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah... Anakin sure takes his frustrations out on those seperatists... :eek:
  11. mandragora Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    I'm not sure - he should have known 'cause things were painfully obvious. But in the utterly messed up, psychotic state he was in, I'm not sure he was. IMO, he wasn't capable of one single clear thought at that time, but maybe that is just me.
  12. Absydian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2004
    star 3
    I have to keep telling myself he absolutely didn't know ever.

    Cause you would think any idiot could add 1+1. The seperatists wanted Padme dead....their leader is a Sith Lord....Palpatine is that Sith Lord....Palpatine wanted Padme Dead.
  13. VEJJITA Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2004
    star 1
    palpatine didn't want padme dead necesarily.. nute gunray wanted her dead for sure...

    i think after turning to the darkside to try to save padme anakin didn't really care about seperatists anymore.. just getting what he wanted from sidious..i.e the power to save padme.
  14. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    If he had'nt figured it out before-hand he had to of realized it when Gunray said "But Lord Sidious promised us peace".
  15. Darth_Tweakpiece Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 2
    There are always two Sith lords...no more, no less...In reality wasn't Dooku the Sith Lord in charge of the seperatist movement? Darth Sidious was the dark lord suspected of controlling the Senate - not the seperatists...but then again, the dark side clouds all judgment and knowledge of such things, so maybe Anakin was just confused by Palpatine and in denial of the truth...
  16. BlackRook Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2005
    star 2
    It this point in Sith history, would be pretty stupid for the two Sith Lords to be working against each other. Remember that it's not just any two Sith that can exist at any given time- it's master and apprentice. Naturally, they're going to work together, and if the apprentice decides to kill the master, he's not going to make a huge public spectacle out of it. Dooku revealed that Sidious exists, the Jedi soon learn that Dooku himself is a Sith. They figure Dooku's revelation about Sidious controlling the senate is a lie meant to distract them and dismiss it, but decide to keep an eye on things. They probably imagined that Sidious was ultimately controlling the Separatists through Dooku but only had some influence on several senators at most without realizing just how high up in the Republic power structure he really was.

    But anyway, yeah, once Anakin learned that Palpatine was Sidious, I think he even he was smart enough to realize that he was controlling both sides.
  17. Absydian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2004
    star 3

    Even so, right after he offs Mace, after hearing all these promises from Palpatine, at the height of his power when he is pledging allegiance to Palps, palps dodges a bullet by essentially retracting everything he has promised by saying "Im sure we can discover..."

    So I got the impression through out the movie he was telling Anakin he knew how to stop death, but then fesses up and slips in a "No I really dont but might be able to find out"

    Dead wife or no dead wife I would of iced him right there.

    But he had to know that the seperatists were under the control of a Sith lord cause it seems thats all the Jedi talked about. Ecspecially with Count Dooku and the Two rule. The rest is simple mathmatics leading all the way to palpatine, Just takes him 20 some odd years to figure out I guess.

  18. Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Anakin to Mace: "He's the Sith Lord we've been looking for!"

    Anakin knows...

    - O_F
  19. Darth_Tweakpiece Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 2
    I totally stand corrected....
  20. yoshifett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    It was too late by then. He'd killed Mace, he was under the spell of the dark side. When Anakin makes his choice between Sidious and Mace, that's the breaking point. He's thrown his chips in with Sidious and the Sith.
  21. LizardJedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 4
    Obi-Wan figured it out, I would imangine Anakin would too.
  22. JONJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 5
    Yeah I think he knew, I mean Nute told him just before he slaughtered him. "The War is over! Lord Sidious promised us peace..."
  23. brook_33 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    Hmm, let me make the connection:

    Anakin - loves - Padme
    Anakin - loyal - Palpatine
    Palpatine - is - Sidious
    Sidious - master - Dooku
    Dooku - contracted - Jango
    Jango - attempted twice to kill - Padme
    Dooku - attempted to kill - Padme
    Gunray - attempted to kill - Padme
    Sidious - leader of - Dooku, Jango, and Gunray

    And Anakin is still loyal to Palpatine who tried to kill his wife so many times.
  24. Jedi_Hoppin_Bun Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    Just my take on things, but since Anakin is so impetuous, I think he didn't really comprehend and think through everything until after Mustafar, hence the tears. When he turns, he's totally focused on saving Padme, but after Mustafar, I think he finally gets the totality of it and makes the connection. Of course, by then, he's too far gone...
  25. Starwars_1977-1983 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 4
    The bit that doesn't really work is Sidious' and Anakin bragging about "bringing peace to the empire".

    Cause Anakin now knows that Sidious brought war to the galaxy. As the man behind the separatists, it is not too hard for Sidious to betray them, have them killed, hence bring peace to the galaxy.

    Sidious' manipulations work perfectly except that bit.

    I understand Anakin wants to learn the power to cheat death and that he doesn't trust the jedi. But that "bring peace to the empire" thing is a bit hard to swallow !!

    Sidious clearly admits that he is a bastard, a liar, a traitor much more than the worst of all the jedi !

    Lucas says that Anakin and Sidious are both convinced to act for the good of all. When you think about it, it's hard to believe.
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