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Did Anakin love Padme too much?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by theman54, Jul 1, 2006.

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  1. theman54

    theman54 Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 26, 2005
    He was willing to slaughter a whole race in the name of what he thought would keep her safe... what do you think she would have been willing to do for him?

    Do you think that Padme loved Anakin as much as he loved her?
     
  2. arthurclavin2

    arthurclavin2 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 27, 2003
    Anakin slaughtered a whole race in vengeance for their kidnapping, near-killing of his mother.

    It's difficult to say whether Padme loved Anakin as much, because the PT is primarily concerned with Anakin's character. They probably loved each other equally.
     
  3. iLoveAnakin7

    iLoveAnakin7 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 17, 2005
    I can tell you this much. Padme would never slaughter people to save Anakin. That's not healthy love at all. That's possesive.

    It's hard to describe the way Anakin loved Padme. There's many ways to look at it. On the one hand, they didn't know each other very well when they got married, and only saw each other a little during the War. So one can say it was infatuation more than love. When we do see them as a married couple, they can't communicate very well. Anakin does not listen to Padme and respect what she wants. If he did, he would have known that she didn't want any of what he was doing for her.

    Padme is more sensible. She would have learned to let go.
     
  4. theman54

    theman54 Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 26, 2005
    I guess that at times Anakin had more of a greedy kind of love. After he lost his mother, Padme was all he had left, and he wanted to keep her around.
     
  5. iLoveAnakin7

    iLoveAnakin7 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 17, 2005
    Yeah I agree. I think his love was a little twisted in some aspects. Not at all the way anyone would want to be, or should be loved in the world, but I think it's mainly a product of his environment and the way he grew up.

    Going from having an attachment, to then having to give everything up will mess someone up pretty badly.
     
  6. theman54

    theman54 Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 26, 2005
    "So one can say it was infatuation more than love."

    I'm not really sure if it's fair to be saying that. Anakin and Padme loved each other, their love was real. They loved each other quite desperately, that can't really be considered infatuation. Anakin's love for Padme was twisted in the end by the dark side, but it was pure before that.

    Infatuation is a mere high school crush, it's not real marriage and devotion to another human being.

    "Anakin does not listen to Padme and respect what she wants."

    I'm not really sure if that's a fair assumption, either. The two never really even discussed the issue of the dream that much, and Padme kind of turned a blind eye to it. At the end, Anakin does act that way. He doesn't respect what she wants anymore. That wasn't really Anakin Skywalker, though. I'm sure that Anakin loved Padme enough to respect her wishes (he was a "good" person before he turned), but there is only so much that can be done when you're controlled by the dark side.

    Anakin would have turned back to the light side if it weren't for Obi-Wan showing up. I think that he would have listened to Padme and gone away with her. He was once again misled at that point, and brought to think that Padme had betrayed and turned against him.
     
  7. LORDVIGILANCE

    LORDVIGILANCE Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Jun 11, 2005
    I think that Anakin's own love for Padme grew to dangerous levels as the Clone Wars continued. Padme's love was pure and untouched. However, Anakin had experienced loss before and vowed never to fail again. Everything he did was for her. But she didn't want Anakin's power or his prestige that he would have enjoyed as Darth Vader. She wanted just Anakin. Padme wanted just her husband and her unborn child(ren). Anakin took all the wrong turns and wouldn't have turned back to the light side if Obi-Wan hadn't appeared. He had turned to the dark side and lost his soul for something, he wasn't leaving Mustafar without either a willing or unwilling Padme by his side.
     
  8. iLoveAnakin7

    iLoveAnakin7 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 17, 2005

    You can't seriously think he would have turned back? He was already getting angry with her BEFORE Obi-Wan came down the ramp. She would have walked away from him like she said, and he would have tried to stop her in some forceful way.
     
  9. AnakinLuver

    AnakinLuver Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 13, 2006
    I would say Anakin was a little too possessive over Padme, but not so much that it was very very very unhealthy. Anakin loved Padme and Padme loved Anakin. It maybe was an infatuation at the beginning, but throughout their marriage it was passionate and romantic. I always believed they loved each other equally, but some of the time, Anakin did a little bit more because he didn't want to lose the last love figure in his life. His mother was dead and Padme was all he had left.

    I've always loved their relationship except the ending of course.

    Rachel Rose@};-
     
  10. theman54

    theman54 Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 26, 2005
    We can't really know for sure what would have happened. Everything that Anakin did was for Padme, and if he was convinced that she was still loyal to him (which might have happened if Obi-Wan hadn't arrived), then he could very well have turned back.
     
  11. iLoveAnakin7

    iLoveAnakin7 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 17, 2005
    But she was telling him that she couldn't follow him down the path he was going, which means she would have left him. I think everyone can agree that Padme would not have agreed to the Empire or his actions.

    If Obi-Wan hadn't showed up, it's very plausible to assume that Padme would have walked away from Anakin and he would have done something to keep her grounded. i.e. Force Choke.

    I do not believe he was anywhere near turning back. It took Luke's selfles love for him for that to happen. Padme would have walked away from him.
     
  12. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 22, 2004
    He was willing to slaughter a whole race in the name of what he thought would keep her safe..

    Not a whole race, only a small tribe. Remember, there were still enough sandpeople left in ANH to knock Luke over the head. :D
     
  13. ticopuma

    ticopuma Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 2, 2005
    Honestly, I dont think what Anakin felt for Padme was love anymore, it was more of an obsession. When your obsessed with something you can't let go and will do anything to have it. Think of Padme as a drug for Anakin. He was afraid of losing her and would do anything to keep her. Thats how I see it anyway.
     
  14. Jaden-Skywalker

    Jaden-Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 13, 2004
    I was gonna point that out! :p
     
  15. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    Anakin did not love Padme. Period. He loved himself, and only himself.
     
  16. Azure_Angel

    Azure_Angel Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 20, 2006
    If you read the nevelizations their love is much better defined, Anakin and Padme did love eachother emmensly, there is no doubting that. Their love is pure and deep, to the point that they would both do anything for eachother. It is described from Padme's point of view that Anakin is her life, he is the very reason that she pushes on every day as a senator, she is trying to end the war diplomaticaly so she can bring the love of her life home that much sooner, it is stated that had she not been in love with him she would hav eleft politics in the Clone Wars because she had come to realize how corrupt they were.
    There are many people who say that Anakin never really loved her, that he only loved himself. I would dissagree, durring AOTC adn the beginning of ROTS he love her more than anything else in his life, but once he became Darth Vader, Padme's status got bumped down and Anakin took teh forefront, it is Palpatine's influence that causes this selfishness within Anakin, that causes his love for her to receede. But even as Vader he love her immensly, there were many instances where he would sit in his editation chamber and reflect upon her, upon what he had done to her, and he would cry because he missed her so much. At that point the only emotion stronger than his love for his late wife is his hate for himself. He loaths himself, for what he has become, for what he dose to Padme, and he even attempts to end his life several times, but Palpatine seeing this weekness in him puts a sith stimulent into him which causes him to endure, making him live.
    As far as Padme killing others to save Anakin, i really dont have an answer to that. But i dont think she wouldn't have considered it.
    ~Azure_Angel
     
  17. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

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    Jul 29, 2001
    At the end he loved only himself.
    It's not simply one way or the other. The two can coincide and evolve.
    What Anakin had was certainly a type of love. But it was desperate, eventually possessive, eventually obsessive. At the beginning it was pure. Beginning meaning his innocent infactuation in TPM. In AotC it slowly spiraled down into a kind of desperate love. Though he finally relented. When she yielded (of her own will I might add), it evolved into kind of a possessive love. With the dreams not ceasing, it became an obssession.
    It's also very Freudian I believe. Anakin had a mother complex that Padme filled.
    However, to say it wasn't love just as it wasn't perfect and in the end fatal writes out damn near any love imaginable on Earth. Nobody's perfect afterall, so a pure love probably doesn't exist especially when viewed through cynical eyes. To love purely means to love them openly, freely, with no attachments. Yet there's always some underlining cynical reason one can say we all love. We love so and so because they make me happy. We love so and so because they make me complete.
    To get philosophical, Yeshua said to love your enemies. That would be (I believe anyway as I'm not considering the following as deep as I should) a form of pure love. You get nothing out of loving someone who hates you, but you simply love them despite what they are and because of what they are. Naturally, very few hold this kind of admiration for everything so we all form a kind of selfish love in that we get something out of it.
    Anakin didn't love too much. Love is not the problem. Anakin became possessive and fearing to lose that which made him happy. But, it can also be argued he wanted to save Padme for her own sake as well. Why was he wrong then? Because she seemed comfortable and confident (more or less) with the circumstances. Her concern was on the baby.
    It can also be noted, that Padme's love for Anakin brought out the worst in her. She was willing to overlook the attrocious act of the Tusken Slaughter (granted, this one is err arguably arguable). But in RotS her love also brings out denial, fear, hasty actions, and a bit of possessiveness herself (afterall, she couldn't bear to live without Anakin).
    Going back to the Yeshua comment, Luke takes a kind of backwards approach.
    He's at first very obssessive about his missing father figure and desperate to know more. He's kind of possessive towards the ideal (Yoda's comment seemed to spark more tha just impatience with Luke). But when Luke finds out his father is his worst enemy, he still loves him. There's nothing to be gained from loving his father, but he does. He's also willing to let Vader fall should Vader so choose. It's a kind of detached, yet ultimately deeply caring love.
    When Anakin died, Luke of course did not want to aide in his death, but ultimately did not fight the inevitable as Anakin should have attempted with Padme. Also note Anakin has finally learned this lesson as well. When Anakin dies, Luke eventually let's go, mourns and reflects at Anakin's funeral, but does let go. He doesn't relent his love, but he let's go of what must pass. Qui-Gon had a similar type of love. Though I wouldn't call it love so much as a type of respect for all life. That, or he was on his way to discovering that.
    So, once more, it's not as either or as it's made out to be. "See! The Jedi were wrong! Love is great!" The kind of love Luke learned to hold is indeed great. The attached, possessive/obssessive love Anakin formed obviously can destroy a Jedi as we've seen.
     
  18. lovelucas

    lovelucas Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2004
    Love is never defined by limitations...it just is
     
  19. AnnLouise

    AnnLouise Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jul 10, 2005
    I'd agree on your first point, and refer you to the "Obi-Wan's Actions on Mustafar" thread for you second. The ROTS Padme/Anakin remind me of a WW2 couple who get married quickly before the husband goes off to war, and are thus both very close (as spouses) and distant (little interaction). They do love each other, but after their marriage have little to no time to go through the ups & downs that young married couples share. If they'd had that time together, Anakin might not've been so desperate to keep Padme alive when they finally reunited. TCM recently ran a movie called The Clock that captures that WW2 kind of rushed, immediate love-marriage-off to fight story. With a happier ending than ROTS.

    But I have to disagree on your theory on Anakin returning to the light on Mustafar. Broken record time - read - or reread - Dark Lord by James Luceno. Vader remembers Mustafar, blames Padme and O-W for his mutilation, and vows he would've MADE Padme understand the rightness of everything he'd done for her. He dreams of her at his side, ruling the galaxy; noting O-W did or said could've changed Vader's mind from the DS.
     
  20. r2decaf

    r2decaf Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 5, 2006
    Something I don't fully understand is how we are supposed to judge Anakin's pursuit of saving Padme. Now, I'm sure everyone agrees turning to the Dark Side and killing people is pretty much a bad idea, but seriously - if you had a premonition that a loved one of yours was going to die, and you were absolutely convinced it was inevitable - wouldn't you at least try to think of a way to prevent it? If Anakin had just shrugged it off and figured "it was her time", I think the audience would hate him. I don't know why it's obsessive or possessive to worry about losing someone and wondering if you can save them from death. I know it is not the Jedi way, but it's an absolutely human way, and I find it odd when people here call him possessive for wanting to save his wife and child, when I'm sure everyone here would immediately panic and try to help this loved one if they were convinced their loved one was about to die. This may be a poor example but if your loved one was in the hospital with a terminal illness, most people I think would still hope they can be saved, and try to do everything they can to heal this person - or should we just allow them to die quietly, because it must be their time? I'm not condoning Anakin's actions and choices but I don't understand how Anakin would be remotely sympathetic or heroic for accepting her death otherwise. What he should have done was kill Palpatine or allow Mace to kill Palpatine, of course. But after he had the dream, how could anyone identify with a man who shrugs off a premonition that his wife will die?

    Of course, what Anakin did in order to save Padme was totally wrong. But before he realized what was required to save Padme and he made the decision to do evil to accomplish this goal - was he so wrong or possessive?
     
  21. iLoveAnakin7

    iLoveAnakin7 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 17, 2005
    I think the reason that alot of people think his love was obsessive and possesive is because they believe Anakin wasn't trying to save Padme for herself, he was doing it for himself, so he wouldn't have to be alone. In that way he viewed her as a possesion more than a wife.

    Yes people will go to great lengths to save those that they love if they believe they are in danger, but the fact remains that most people WON'T kill others to do it. That's the problem. If Anakin was a rational being, he would have not turned to the dark side and help ruin the Republic. He would have accepted as a person, and as a Jedi, that the future is always in motion, and that he has to let things go.

    If you love something, you have to let it go.
     
  22. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    Anakin loved her before his descent into darkness, that much is clear I think. However I don't think the love was healthy for either Anakin or Padme. They both knew that their love would destroy them as they admit in Episode 2.

    However much Anakin may have loved Padme before his fall however, during his time as Vader in RotS it stopped being about her. He'd never have admitted it, but saving Padme had just become a justification for his lust for power and his hatred.

    A Jedi should know that the future is always in motion and that Anakin had no idea what it is that he needed to do given that it's not included in the vision. He in the end is twisted and evil, and brings about the very thing he feared.

    Padmé wouldn't have allowed herself to go to such depths of madness.
     
  23. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

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    Jul 29, 2001
    Anakin wasn't trying to save Padme for herself, he was doing it for himself, so he wouldn't have to be alone. In that way he viewed her as a possesion more than a wife.

    Exactly. Padme seemed relaxed and fine. Ready to accept what may come (until later of course).
    Anakin was of the stance of 'I'll save you irregardless'. It's like someone on their death bed being ok with death and you still try to save them.
    They're obviously ok with death, so you're not doing it for them, you're doing it because you yourself don't want to lose something (someone) close to you. But *shrug* its human.
    Would I try to save someone? Well that's one of those things where you really won't know until the circumstances surround you. I'd lke to say I'd stick to my convictions when faced with the seeingly unbearable, but I know myself enough to say 'well now, I'm not sure.' Cause life has a funny way of throwing absolute worse-case scenarios at one.

    Anakin is not a bad person for wanting to save her. As I stated, I've met very few people who have a universal pure love. But that possessiveness turns to obssession which isn't healthy or heroic.
    One thing I like about RotS is it blurs the lines so well between everything. I think many people were expecting a clear cut defined answer as opposed to having to ask themselves questions.
    "The turn to the darkside was too quick!"
    "When did it happen?"
    "Obviously right there."
    "Well yes and no."
     
  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    "It's about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance. And that's why they say he was too old to be a Jedi, because he made his emotional connections. His undoing is that he loveth too much."

    --George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine Interview; June 2005.


    So I would say that he loves too much. He's too needing and controling. Unable to let things be. Unable to accept change. Unable to accept life's flows and ebbs.
     
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  25. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

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    Jul 29, 2001
    So basically what I said :p
     
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