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Did Anakin love too much because the galaxy didn?t love enough?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by jedi_master_ousley, Aug 4, 2005.

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  1. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 14, 2002
    It is a fact that Anakin was the Chosen One and brought balance to the Force by destroying the Sith. Lucas has made this very clear. However, I believe there is more to bringing balance to the Force than simply destroying the Sith.

    Anakin?s lust for power was a result of his love for Padmé. While his love for Padmé was caused by selfishness and the fear of losing her, love was still what drove him to the dark side. His first major dark side act was the Tusken Raider slaughter in Episode II; this was the result of Anakin?s love of his mother.

    The galaxy as a whole is not a very loving place. According to Shmi, the biggest problem in the galaxy is that nobody helps each other. Nobody loves others enough to even offer a helping hand. The galaxy has been thrust into war; both ?sides? were full of hate for one another. The Supreme Chancellor was a Sith Lord, who uses his hate to give him strength.

    With the galaxy thrust into apathy towards fellow citizens and an atmosphere filled with hatred, it makes sense that the Chosen One would counterbalance this trend. Anakin loves too much because the galaxy does not love enough. Anakin?s love helped create the Empire ? which spawned the Rebel Alliance, a group of people who truly cared about one another and the galaxy as a whole. They brought love to the galaxy by destroying the Empire in Episode VI.

    The Force is like a pond. When it is in balance, the water is clear, and free of pollution. The Sith are like large amounts of algae that infect the water and make it dirty and nasty. To bring balance to the Force, the Sith must be destroyed; just as destroying the algae returns to the pond to a state of balance. The only way this can be done is through love. Anakin?s love created a group fighting to restore love to the galaxy ? which in turn helped Luke rise to prominence, who once again brought out the love in Anakin.

    So, by loving too much, Anakin helped bring about balance to the Force. Thoughts?
  2. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Apr 1, 2004
    Theres definetly truth in this. Ive always contended that the fast growing yet disconnected Galaxy portrayed in the PT, and that is definetely something that Lucas wants us to notice with trade blockades and seperatists movements and the such, has as much to do with the birth of Darth Vader and the state of the Galaxy in the OT as the Emporer or any other factor save Anakin himself.
  3. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Jul 30, 2005
    The funny thing is, when I pour over the myriad Lucas interviews, and listen to his audio commentaries (two, thus far), I am often taken aback by how George emphasizes Anakin's shortcomings, but gives no mention to the failings of the Jedi.

    It's telling that in Episode I, Anakin "gives without any thought of reward," and "knows nothing of greed," (contrast this with the possessive love that will take hold of him a decade later). He saves Jar Jar from Sebulba, risks his own life to help Qui-Gon, and even gives one of his merchant friends a cooling unit before leaving the planet. Simply put: he is a dream child.

    This is a far cry from the arrogant Anakin of AOTC, who, for ten years, has been in league with a group of ascetics who separate children from their parents after childbirth (and, presumably, don't allow for reunions). The boy is insufferable, but can anyone blame him? He's traded one form of slavery for another.

    What are the two predominant reasons for his fall?

    1. Eros (which is forbidden to a Jedi).
    2. A lust for power, yes, but one fueled by utopian ideals:

    "I had a dream I came back and freed all the slaves."
    "...Decide what's in the best interest of all the people, and then do it."
    "I will even stop people from dying."
    "I have brought peace to my new Empire."

    Anakin had spent his life in servitude, and did not wish for anyone to share his fate (and the Jedi didn't seem too concerned about slavery, did they?). He wanted to clean up the galaxy; what's more, he wanted his beloved by his side while he was doing it.

    Can anyone honestly blame him?

    Despite Lucas's droning about attachments (!), attachments (!), I found Anakin tremendously sympathetic.
  4. mandragora

    mandragora Jedi Master star 4

    May 28, 2005
    This is interesting: "According to Shmi, the biggest problem in the galaxy is that nobody helps each other."

    Well, how often have the Jedi insisted that "doing one's duty" is more important than helping a friend? Anakin was told to NOT help Obi-Wan, stay where he was instead, was told to NOT help Padme, otherwise he would be "expelled from the Jedi order".
    He was told to forget about the dreams of his mother, because "dreams pass in time". He was told to spy on Palpatine, and act of illoyality to someone he considered a friend, and from the political viewpoint an act of treason, indeed.

    All this is very contradictory to the statement of Shmi. It's not only a lack of love, but also a lack of loyalty.

    And of course Qui-Gon didn't exactly represent this part of the Jedi ideals. I can imagine that by the time of ROTS Anakin was somewhat desillusioned concerning the Jedi order; probably he had expected them to be a little different when he left with Qui-Gon. Maybe there where seeds of doubt concerning the Jedi long before ROTS, when Palpatine took advantage of this and stirred them up.

    As to these Lucas quotes: I think Lucas is perfectly aware that a lot of issues are not that simple at all as he puts this in the press, and there is a lot more to say concerning balance, attachment and the like. He is far to well educated to not know about the subtleties, and really there are interviews when it shows. However, you have to notice that the overwhelming majority of viewers is not interested in these things at all, and would just be confused by different interpretation. So he sticks to the old but successful rule "keep it simple and stupid". At least that's my take on it.
  5. coffeeshop

    coffeeshop Jedi Youngling

    Aug 5, 2005
  6. Obi_Frans

    Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 31, 2003
    I don't think so; if anything i'd say it's the Jedi and the people who would form the Rebellion that bring this balance. They're the only ones who are sacrificing themselves and fighting till their very last breaths for a Republic that has grown corrupt, a Republic that doesn't love them back. They bring the balance by loving all when the love is nearly nonexistant.

    Anakin isn't really a part of this boat, he loves; sure. But that love itself is corrupted in the same way that the galaxy/Republic is corrupted; it's a love that has been injected with selfishness, greed, fear, anger and control. He loves people like Neimodians love money, which is very ironic.

    Like somebody else said, the only time he really brings any balance through love is when he saves Luke. He tips the scale back by eradicating the biggest source of hatred and non-love by taking out the Sith Lord. The other times; he disrupts the balance even more - in the case of Padme, nearly destroying it alltogether. His love for Shmi led him to wiping out an entire tribe, his love for Padme led him to wiping out the entire Jedi Order and allowing the galaxy to be spawned into one of a dictatorship. Controlled by fear.

    The people that are part of the Rebel Alliance didn't start loving when the Empire was created, they loved before that. That was what TPM was about; the unity of Gungans and Nubians, Padme Amidala. Anakins "love" destroyed her, when she was our very symbol of "love and caring" in a corrupt Republic. Anakin/Vader and the Empire didn't create that, as the prequels have shown they were there before them. They just forced it to fight back. If anything, Anakin nearly destroyed that. He stood by as Alderaan was blown up, he helped hunt down the Jedi Knights, he betrayed and "killed" his own wife etc etc.

    I think your theory is valid, but not in Anakins case.

    That's because, from most of his interviews and comments, he pretty much seems to agree with the whole ideal and purpose of the Jedi Order.

    - O_F
  7. Darth_Pazuzu

    Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Padawan star 4

    Aug 3, 2005
    I totally agree with jedi_master_ousley 100%!
    I have often had thoughts along those same lines, but you just summed the situation up with far more elegance and articulacy than I probably ever could!=D=
  8. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 17, 2003
    Some interesting ideas here, nice metaphor Matt.

    On a smaller scale-- one could compare the emotional state of Anakin with the detachment of the other Jedi. In the Revenge of the Sith (and Shatterpoint), Stover describes Mace Windu as stone-faced, a man that won?t smile and hides all emotions. This is a good way at looking at the general outlook of the Jedi. There humanity is repressed, emotions are flaws, on the outside, they must remain expressionless, calm, and at peace.

    The Jedi in their ultimate arrogance (Sidious is correct on this point) tend to believe that they are above the masses, beyond the confines of their races, they are better then human. To achieve this perfect state, they are forced to sever ties with the ?flaws? of their species, and thus they lose something. To remain in control of themselves, they become apathetic (in some ways) and are unemotional about everything. A Jedi must not fall in love, have fun, go on an adventure, or relax. Such things are unknown to them. Anakin in contrast, embraces such things. He seeks adventure, fun and love, for he understands that such things bring enjoyment to life. So in some ways Anakin and his embrace of love, balances the Jedi and their rejection of it.

    To expand on the Matt Analogy, and to do my personal twist:
    If the galaxy is a stagnant pond, then Anakin is the bullfrog that leaps in, sends ripples across the surface, upsets the food chain, and changes everything forever. The stagnant pond is a breeding ground for mosquitoes and Anakin consumes them, eventually.

  9. Obi_Frans

    Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 31, 2003
    What are you basing that on?

    Qui-Gon pretty much considers all lifeforms equal to him, an older Obi-Wan is "old friends" with Dex, Yoda has good relations with Wookies. If anything, the PT makes a case that the Jedi aren't nearly as secluded as they appear in the OT.

    It's not that they can't have that; Jedi can have fun. But their duty is always above that, that's the difference between them and Anakin. Where he should follow his duty - he seeks adventure, he falls in love etc etc.

    Yoda: "A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. (to the invisible Ben, indicating Luke) This one, a long time have I watched. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. (turning to Luke) You are reckless!"

    There's a reason for the Jedi way, it's that others must be able to depend on them to always see the bigger picture. A Jedi should not be looking for excitement or adventure when he's on a job, neither can doctors; or cops; surgeons; presidents; generals etc etc.

    The Jedi don't reject it; they control it, which is a good thing. Anakin doesn't do that; which is a bad thing. Luke is very much like him; but throughout his journey he learns to understand the difference.

    - O_F
  10. Darth_Pazuzu

    Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Padawan star 4

    Aug 3, 2005
    I believe that Darth-Seldon is quite correct in his comments on the Jedi's emotional detachment, and in his criticism of Mace Windu. But Obi_Frans is quite right to point out the exceptions we've seen (particularly Qui-Gon Jinn, who was very much in touch with the "Living Force" and did not subscribe to the dogma that the Jedi Order could often get mired in).
  11. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 17, 2003
    I was vague on the last post, let me clear some of it up.

    Padme: To be angry is to be human.
    Anakin: To control your anger is to be a Jedi
    Padme:'re human.
    Anakin: No, I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this.

    -From the original Episode II script as printed in "The Art of Star Wars."

    It isn't so much that Jedi isolate themselves from non-Jedi, or see themselves as greater then other people. It is a personal thing, they view themselves as beyond human, as Jedi. They aren't saying it is a bad thing or a good thing, just a different thing. While they don't personally isolate themselves from other sapient beings, they do consider themselves differently. Perhaps that is Anakin being Anakin, but it sounds more like a lesson he learned in the Jedi order.

    Most Jedi in the prequels have an arrogance. Mace Windu doesn't believe Palpatine could be the Sith lord, the Archives keeper believes she has all of the files --it is impossible that the library isn't complete, Windu believes he can destroy Sidious with four Jedi Knights, etc. There is arrogance and it isn't just that of Anakin.

    The Jedi have serious flaws in the prequels, that is why they are destroyed.

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