Did Anakin think there was something going on between Obi-Wan and Padme?

Many times during the course of the movies, Anakin may make reference to Obi-Wan Kenobi in a negative light; sure, he is his Master, his colleague, and his best friend, but sometimes, he mentions him being "inferior" to him. Possibly a result of his own innate jealousy?


The scene with Anakin and Padme in ROTS, when he asks "Obi-Wan's been here, hasn't he?" and "What did he want?", which ties in to his "You were with him!" later on in the movie, shows that he at least suspected something going on in between Obi and Padme. Think about it: in time of dire need, it was Padme who kept mentioning Obi-Wan's name to Anakin, showing that he cared for him greatly. It was not Anakin but Padme who was worried if he was alright during Order 66, and that says alot.


Was Anakin secretly suspicious of Obi-Wan and Padme?





~*~*~*Anakin_Darth~*~*~*

 

No I don't think so. When Anakin said "You're with him" he meant Padme wasn't with him (Anakin) and had therefore betrayed him and brought Obi-Wan along. Padme had sided with the Order and was now an enemy of the Republic. "Him" represented the Jedi Order as a whole.

About the other scene, I believe Anakin was just curious as to what exactly Obi-Wan was doing there. Sure, Kenobi knew Padme, but they weren't best buddies or anything, so perhaps Anakin suspected Obi-Wan had found out about their relationship. Anakin had just had a vision of Obi-Wan standing with Padme as she gave birth, so Obi-Wan obviously knew about the pregnancy (in the vision).

 

That is a very good observation, but you have to consider the male "boyfriend/husband" point of view: I know that if my girlfriend was around any guy, even if it was my best friend, I would at least be suspicious, not necessarily of my girlfriend, because I trust her more than anyone in the world, but of the guy's intentions. So, speaking from a "jealous male" point of view, I would think that Anakin suspected at least even the smallest of mistrust with Obi-Wan/Padme. The way he says "Obi-Wan's been here, hasn't he?" is not of a 'so, was my friend around?' kind of deal, it was a 'what is he doing visiting MY wife behind my back without me knowing; what is he up to'? kind of thing.


But to each their own I guess; difference of opinion is why I came up with this thread in the first place




~*~*~*Anakin_Darth~*~*~*

 

The thing that bothers me, is that she was able to take Obi-Wan point of view very quickly. If she really loved Anakin, IMO it would have happened a lot slower. The way it is shown, its not that believable to me.

 

But she did take Anakin's point of view; when she met him on Mustafar, she was still iffy about the whole thing, until Anakin went on and on about ruling the galaxy, and doing everything to save her. Remember that Anakin talked to her before Obi-Wan did, and all throughout Obi-Wan's plea to her, she either didn't believe him, or chose to ignore him. So yes, until the very end when Anakin himself ended her life, she believed in him, even AFTER he choked her ("There's good in him......I know this......still").





~*~*~*Anakin_Darth~*~*~*

 

Well in the novel for ROTS Palpatine kinda hints this to Anakin:

"You still havent told me what he has to do with Obi Wan"
"Ah, that- well, that is the difficult part. The disturbing part. It seems that Master kenobi has been in contact with a certain Senator who i known to be among the leaders of this cabal. Apparently, ver close contact. The rumor is that he was seen leaving this Senator's residence this very morning, at an.. unseemly hour"
"Who?" Anakin opened his eyes and sat forward. "Who is this Senator? Let's go question him"
"I'm sorry Anakin. But the Senator in question is, in fact, a her. A woman you know quite well, in fact".
"You-" He wasnt hearing this. He couldnt be. "You mean-"
Anakin chocked on her name.
Palpatine gave him a look of melancholy sympathy. "I'm afraid so."
Anakin coughed his voice back to life. "That's impossible! I would know- she doesnt... she couldnt-"
"Sometimes the closest", Palpatine said sadly, "are those who cannot see"

you can read the rest from page 250 on (in the hardcover version of it).. it's obvious as i read on that this strategy worked for Palpatine: he planted the seed of doubt.

Palpatine needed Anakin to start doubting all of those he loved most: that would include Obi Wan and Padme specially. What better way to start making him not trust them? hint that they are keeping something like this from him.

IMO Palpatine knew that both Padme and Obi Wan had to be out of the picture in order for him to keep a hold on Anakin.

I think by the time Mustafar came about, he had this on his mind aswell.

 

Yes but, if she really believed and trusted him, she wouldnt have even gone to Mustafar.

 

Well the thing is Obi-Wan isn't just another friend of Anakin's. He's his brother, mentor, Master, father-figure, and not to mention a Jedi Master. If you can't trust a Jedi Master, then who can you trust? Perhaps that was the problem with Anakin...Sorry, I'm getting off topic here. My point is, I think Anakin's mistrust in Obi-Wan ("Obi-Wan and the Council don't trust me) was not a personal one, but a political one. With the confusion with the Senate/Palpatine/Order, I don't think Anakin has the time of day to think his wife is cheating on him, or that his best friend is plotting behind his back. Anakin had issues with Jedi affairs with Obi-Wan, not marriage ones.

 

anakin_luver put forth the following:

Well the thing is Obi-Wan isn't just another friend of Anakin's. He's his brother, mentor, Master, father-figure, and not to mention a Jedi Master. If you can't trust a Jedi Master, then who can you trust? Perhaps that was the problem with Anakin...Sorry, I'm getting off topic here. My point is, I think Anakin's mistrust in Obi-Wan ("Obi-Wan and the Council don't trust me) was not a personal one, but a political one. With the confusion with the Senate/Palpatine/Order, I don't think Anakin has the time of day to think his wife is cheating on him, or that his best friend is plotting behind his back. Anakin had issues with Jedi affairs with Obi-Wan, not marriage ones.

And thank the Force that's all it was. *Phew* I intensely dislike the idea of a love triangle here. Hollywood flogs this idea to death until its just a bloody pulp, but there is the idea of unease in Anakin wrt where he thinks Padme's allegiances are, her intellectual and philosophical ones. Anakin is a character who suffers if he thinks you're not with him, and this emotional disappointment is taken personally as an affront. He had such issues with both Obi-Wan and Padme, perhaps sometimes when he felt or expected them to back him up and then didn't. One can see how he would have exploded on Mustafar when both of them were on the wrong side together telling him he was wrong. So, no I didn't get that vibe from Anakin that he suspected something between the two people he loved most, but he was suspicious about what they thought of him, that he probably didn't appreciate being discussed by them, that's what I saw in that scene after he says, "Obi-Wan been here hasn't he?"

 

As someone mentioned earlier, in the ROTS novel Palpatine tries to play off the Obiwan and Padme are in some sort of relationship. It is completely untrue, Palpatine only says this to further distance Anakin from Obiwan. As for Anakin's comment "your with him!" Lucas clarfies the line on the DVD commentary when he says that Anakin doesn't think there in a relationship, just the fact that they have seemed to have teamed up against him. Also, Lucas mentions that during the fight sequence in early drafts he had Anakin's dialogue dealing with a personal jealously with Obiwan but removed all of that from the film. I also think that lucas didn't really want the audience to think that Obiwan and Padme your in a relationship at all, if you watch the C-3PO web documentary Obiwan has a scene where he kisses Padme on the check, but was removed, Lucas didn't want to express any notion that Obiwan and Padme were an item. If they were, wouldn't that hurt the story terribly? Anakin turns to the dark side to save his wife that is cheating on him? His mentor that deep down thinks of as his father was in a relationship with his wife? And the worst of all, in reality, the skywalker twins were actually the kenobi twins?????

 

"One of the problems of Sith is that they are always quick to anger. This scene with her it was very important that we set it up to the point where he chokes her as he does with one of the generals in ANH. But at the same time he doesn?t kill her and he just causes her to faint, but you get to see that flash of anger which he now doesn?t have much control over. The whole point in a Jedi is that you can completely control your anger and now he?s at a point where he can't control it at all, and its because of his need for his control for power and he gets very upset when he can't have it. And now he?s assuming that she?s with Obi-wan, not necessarily in a love relationship or anything, in the basis that they are both on one side of the path and he?s going down the other."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

So no, Anakin thought that they were conspiring against him and the Republic. The novelization and the script did contain lines of dialogue that pointed towards Anakin thinking that she was with someone else. But Lucas dropped these scenes as he felt it was better that his anger at Padme is a result of a simple, though inaccurate misunderstanding. Rather than going full on into Othello.

 

I say not in terms of an affair or anything like that. But, I think he thought they were ploting against him.

 

That is a great observation, but there is still something about Anakin's question to Padme in her apartment that convinces me otherwise. It is just the way he says it, it reminds me of a jealous boyfriend inquiring his girlfriend about her dealings with other men. And even though Lucas says that he does "not necessarily in a love relationship", I am sure that Anakin at least suspected something between them. After all, for a lot of people, you do not need love to be in a relationship, as sad as that may sound. And to any guy who is a bit jealous (which you must admit, Anakin is), they will inquire about anything, even if there is nothing there to worry about.





~*~*~*Anakin_Darth~*~*~*

 

If anything, Anakin just doesn't seem to like the fact that he's not the only man in Padme's life, that she may be confiding in Obi-Wan, and vice versa, and leaving him out. He's hyper-sensitive to the notion of betrayal at this point, because he's become disinchanted with the Jedi and has become a spy for both sides.

 

When love goes to the point of obession like in Anakin's case with Padme, jealousy takes overs. Anakin seems to mistrust Obi-Wan when Padme asks him if Obi-Wan could help them. So the seeds of jealousy are there and by the time he turns he's out of control. Anyone who isn't with him after he turns is his enemy. He even admits this the Obi-Wan.

 

I agree with you there Disciple. On both points. The idea of a love triangle would have demolished the individuality Star Wars had created. Also, but he was suspicious about what they thought of him, I think that is a very valid point. I believe a mix of that and what I mentioned before is what had Anakin suspicious.

 

In the ROTS commantary Lucas says that there was some personal jealousy between Anakin and Obi-Wan 9conserning Padme) but that he puulled that out later. So I guess GL thought it wasn't nessesery or w/e. To me that's a pretty goo indication that there was non of this "Anakin suspects Obi-Wan of steeling his wife" thing. *shrugs* just my oppinion.

 

It's that whole 'fear of losing stuff' that Yoda's been warning everyone about this whole time. Anakin is afraid of losing his mom, Padme, whatever. That fear leads to anger and hate, etc etc. I just figured jealousy was a sort of 'given' when taking into account a Sith's shortcomings. It's like one of their Seven Deadly Sins in the SWU.

 

When Anakin questioned Padme about Obi-wan being there, he was concerned because he had just seen him off. He didn't think that he had come there or would even bother to. He was uncertain of why he was there. Made worse by the vision that he just had of Obi-wan being with Padme during childbirth. He himself was no where to be seen. This bothered him as he thought that she told him or that he figured it out. This is going by the film alone. In the novelization and screenplay, Anakin talked to Palpatine who made Anakin question if Padme was not as loyal as he'd like to think.

 

But you do not think that, in some jealous way, that Anakin suspected something concerning Obi-Wan and Padme? After all, a wise-man once said: "Attachment leads to jealousy! The shadow of greed, that is!"










~*~*~*Anakin_Darth~*~*~*

 

Wait, Admiral Motti was a General?

I'll have to remember this next time someone starts citing Lucas quotes as canon.

 

I honestly don't. I don't think that was George's intent at all. He may have considered it before, but it didn't come across like that to me on screen. Anakin and Obi-Wan had Jedi conflicts.

 

The jealousy has to do with the fact that Obi-wan is favored to go after Grievous, rather than being sent himself. That is the jealousy he has. As well as from when he felt that Obi-wan was holding him back from taking the trials.

The actor who played Admiral Motti and the actor who played General Tagge, originally filmed under the other's name. Meaning it was General Tagge who mouthed off to Vader. It was changed during post production, by Lucas' staff when they switched the names of both characters.

 

This actually made me wonder: what would they have said to each other were they to meet in front of Padme's apartment?

 

This actually made me wonder: what would they have said to each other were they to meet in front of Padme's apartment?

Obi-Wan probably would have said something abut "jedi/political" business and Obi-Wan knows Anakin and Padme are "friends."

No doubt that it would be awkward!