Did Anakin truly believe he was bringing peace to the galaxy?

When Anakin spoke of ruling the galaxy, he mentioned how he would bring "peace, freedom, justice, and security" to his new Empire. Did he really believe that, or was he just rationializing his lust for power? Or is it both? Did he want power because he thought it would make him strong enough to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and of course, save Padme?

 

I tend to think that he genuinely did believe that he'd brought peace to the galaxy-after all, on the face of things he had. Dooku was dead at his hand, Grievous at his former Master's; the Sep Council also destroyed by himself personally, and the Jedi Order-which he now viewed as the enemy-also practically destroyed. There were no more threats to be seen, and wouldn't be seen for nearly twenty years.

Also, Vader echoes this sentiment in The Empire Strikes Back to Luke-'we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy!'. I've never particularly seen any sign that Vader didn't genuinely believe this. He's never been defined as a power-for-power's sake type of Sith; he seems to view the Dark Side as a means to an end, not an end unto itself like Palpatine does.

 

Yes, I agree. While I think Anakin was desirious for power, it's true that he didn't just want power for the sake of it. He wanted power because it made him feel strong enough to help people, or solve the problems in the galaxy; bring peace to it. Without power, he felt like he wasn't "strong enough" or "powerful enough" to do so.

Even as a child, he felt like this. Because of his past as a slave, he'd always felt weak and worthless; like a failure. He was never really innocent; when he was a toddler he must have seen plenty of greed, deception, murder, torture, and abuse. He suffered as well---according to the ROTS novel, he was beat by Watto. He wanted to help people, and the whole galaxy because he had suffered a lot in his life and didn't want other people to suffer. But because he was a slave, he felt he couldn't do it. You see, Anakin's arrogance is really a fascade he puts up to hide how insecure he is.

He secretly has a low self esteem, and power makes him feel like he can do anything, including freeing all the slaves. It's why he wanted to become a Jedi---becoming a Jedi would made him powerful, and that power would make him powerful enough to free all those poor slaves. And when he wanted to save people from dying, it was somewhat selfish, but also altruistic. While he hated how he had lost Shmi, he was also horrified at how the Tusken Raiders could torture such a good natured, *innocent* woman.

So he wanted power to keep those he loves safe with himm, but he also wanted it so that his loved ones didn't have to suffer. Why didn't he want them to suffer? Well, they *loved* him. They *believed* in him, and that was enough for Anakin. That's what he really wants---because of both the verbal and physical abuse he suffered at Watto's hands, he subconciously seeks out people i.e. Palpatine who make him feel good about himself. As long as you love Anakin, and *show* it, you will earn his undying loyalty.

 

He did it for entirely selfish reasons, the rest was just him deluding himself.

 

Yes, he did believe he would bring peace through his actions. In the initial years of the Empire, especially given his new convictions, I doubt this was a difficult concept to align to. Heck I would bet that the majority of the galaxy felt the same way... it was only when they realised the authoritarian and brutal rule of the Empire that they reconsidered this.

The real question is however, did Vader eventually, after he had seen the actions of the Empire, realise the reality of ?chaos? he had brought to the galaxy, and there-after convince himself that his actions were for the better. By the time of Return of the Jedi I get the opinion that Vader, in some form, realises the legitimate plight of the Rebel Alliance, however refuses himself to support it because of his inability to face his guilt (something which would cause him to realise the irrationality of his actions).

 

I also agree with this. Vader is essentially, in his mind, eliminating the threats to peace and stability in the same way in both the PT and OT. The Rebel Alliance ,and the Jedi, just replace the Seperatists as a risk to the galaxy's stability.

Good point. I think Palaptine's perception of the darkside and the force is much more of a philosophy than Anakin's. Vader is just doing what he must, Sidious gets more satisfaction from it.

 

DarthPhilosopher, I think that's always been a problem for Anakin. He's a naturally emotional person because he was fathered by the Force, so the guilt he felt for all the bad things he did must have been pretty bad. Because of that, he can't face up to his immoral deeds. Instead, he constantly rationializes them or ignores them all together because he can't deal with the guilt.

Also, I think Anakin's defintion of peace has to do with his childhood on Tatooine. Tatooine was a wild and chaotic place---there was slavery, murder, torture, and Tusken Raiders who constantly terrioized the settlers. So, from Anakin's point of view, the reason why Tatooine had all this slavery, murder, etc. is because it was chaotic. Because of this, Anakin thought that peace means stability and order, which is the opposite of chaos.

And remember when Palpatine said "you are fullfillying your destiny, Anakin." Palpatine was obiviously trying to convince Anakin that he wasn't the Jedi's Chosen One, but rather the Sith's Chosen One, or Ari. He flat out said that Anakin was a Heir to his power in the ROTS novelization. He also said that he created Anakin. It's why Anakin's turn was so rushed---he basically thought he was born to destory the Jedi Order, and that he was fullfillying the prophecy and Balancing the Force by doing so. And the word "balance" made Anakin think of "stability" which led him to believing of "peace." It explains why Vader always said it was Luke's destiny to fall to the Dark Side in the OT---it's because he thought it he was destined to fall to the Dark Side himself.

 

I disagree. In the OT we were shown an Anakin Skywalker who knows fully well what he is doing and how his evilness will affect others. Like when he had the hyperdrive deactivated in TESB because he knew Calrissian would turn on him. His view of the world has dramatically changed. That the strong rule and the weak are helpless seems like a law of nature to him. He can't allow himself to be weak ever or otherwise something really bad will happen to him - like being burned alive again.

 

However is it not possible that somewhere inside him he is appalled by his actions? Yes, it is suppressed to the point where it cannot be seen or heard, however I have always been of the opinion that in some way, if he could, he would bring back the Republic, the Jedi and ? of course ? Padme. While this thought is suppressed by Vader it is possible that he feels this way in some form. As such, in some way, he understands the plight of the Rebellion... only he refuses to think of this because it would be facing his guilt. Only Luke can bring it to the surface.

 

I agree. Anakin's intentions were good, even though people who hate Anakin try to deny it.

 

I believe his "softer side" is so deeply buried in his subconscious by the time of ANH and TESB that it never enters his conscious thoughts and feelings. It may enter his dreams, and could affect him when dealing with subordinates he liked (soldiers that fought on his side, for instance). But otherwise I don't see anything hinting at that. It took Luke to reawaken those feelings, to render him capable of even having thoughts of remorse.

Why should he want to bring back the Republic? He's shown as totalitarian to the core.
Why should he bring back the Jedi? He hated them and there are huge philosophical gaps.
Padmé ... if he still cares for her. I don't think he does after twenty years dark side, but there's no proof one way or the other.

I think he does respect the rebells: for their ideals, their bravery and their cunning. But they're still fools believing in a system which he thinks has outlived itself. He has seen the Republic at its worst time. He's not going to hold it in high regard.

 

You know, I think Anakin's political beliefs further show how he believed the ends justified the means. His intentions were good---he didn't believe in a totalitarism because he was power hungry, per se. He wanted the problems in the galaxy to be solved, and was frustrated by the Senate because he believed they took too long to do so. However, the thing is that the ends *don't* justify the means. While it would of been nice if the problems in the galaxy could be solved more quickly, waiting for them to be solved is preferable to people being forced to make decisions.

This reminds me of how he dealt with the vision of Padme dying. He didn't think he was being selfish; he thought he was helping Padme by attempting to save her life, and that he could kill the Jedi because he believed the ends justified the means. Instead of waiting patiently to find another way to save Padme, he took the quick and easy way out by joining Palpatine. Overall, he is a results-oriented person. He has noble goals i.e. bringing peace to the galaxy but he will do many heinous things to acheive those goals.

 

I pretty darn much agree. Only power would give Anakin the ability to force peace on everyone. Let's face it: a dictator *can* enforce what a democracy cannot.

Certainly the west's view of the Soviet Union, accurate or not, reinforces that - it was after the Soviet Union break up that many of the satellite nations dissolved into open fighting, in some cases, were hostilities were once suppressed by the central government.

Imposition of order comes at the cost of freedom of expression and individualty. One is more repressive, one is more chaotic (using the extremes).

His motives were good, if immature (inabilty to understand the complexity of the issue) and he was willing to use any means to further "a good end."

 

Drunk on the dark side, I think Anakin believed that "I'm bringing peace" crap right up until he was crawling with just his mechno-hand on the lava-river bank. After that moment, all bets are off.

 

Only I know what the galaxy needs. Utterly arrogant but all the more impressive to me. I'm into charakters that have an ego as huge as a planet.

 

At that point I don't think Anakin cared about anyone or anything but Anakin.

He didn't care about peace or Padme, he only cared about them in relation to himself.

On Mustafar there's a whole lot of "I/me/you" and not much "we/us".

The "my new empire" line says it all.

 

^ And Obi-Wan's response: "Your new empire?!"

 

Darth_Pevra, I don't understand. Anakin is indeed arrogant, but I wonder why someone with Darth Vader as their avatar would say that Anakin/Vader has the "ego the size of a planet"? I've read your other posts, and you say plenty of negative things about him, so can you please explain why you have him as your avatar? I don't mean to be rude, but I just don't understand.

 

Because I love him for his big weaknesses just as much as I love him for his big strengths. If he didn't have them, he wouldn't be Darth Vader. That's also the reason I don't like to downplay his flaws. To me they don't distract from his awesomeness, they add to it. I love Drama and Darth Vader is Drama incarnated. I'll freely admit I don't really like him that much in his teenage years. But I accept them as a stage of his charakter evolution.

 

Okay, I can see that. I was just confused because most fans of characters focus on the characters' strengths rather than flaws.

 

I would say that it was a little bit of both.

 

That makes sense. Part of him was just rationalizing, but he also seemed somewhat sincere. In fact, there is a part in the ROTS novelization where he thought that he had finally become the Hero With No Fear that people said he was when he turned to the Dark Side.