Discussion in 'Literature' started by Kimblee, Jul 9, 2009.
I'm not sure about that.
Still, I'd have loved for Palpatine to have had a hand in Anakin's creation.
We don't know if she was impregnated by a Sith Lord. And if she was, she doesn't even know what a Sith Lord is.
It might be possible he doesn't know exactly what he did or cant' replicate it.
I know, i know cheap.
What if the way he did it was tied explicitly to the slaying of his master? A life for life kind of devilish pact, thing.
I think it'd be interesting if Shmi was one of a dozen or so women he experimented on, he erased the memories of, and then dumped on Tatooine as slaves.
He then did a double take when he realized it succeeded.
She didn't know what happened to her, that much is pretty clear.
As far as the movies, the only option presented for Anakin's creation is via sith. He was POSSIBLY conceived by midi-chlorians and a sith could manipulate midis to create life. That's all that was said. No mention of the force.
As far as Dark Lord goes, I think DVD commentary trumps EU novel.
Because it adds irony to the story. They create their own destruction. Much like Anakin sensing Padme's death, the thing they try to avoid is the thing they create. It's irony on the level of Oedipus.
where in the movies does it ever talk about the Sith creating Anakin?
the only thing ever mentioned as far as i remember is qui gon and the council talking about the chosen one being conceived by midi-chlorians or whatever
the sith creating Anakin is an EU or after the movies idea
not something that is hinted at in the movies
If you were to ask Lucas about it it would go something like this.
Star Wars fan: "Did Anakin's mom know she was impregnated by a Sith Lord?"
George Lucas: "No Anakin was born from the Force. Nothing like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixiZ0D5btlA happened."
Star Wars fan: "...No I mean did Darth Plagueis use his life creating power to manipulate the Force into producing Anakin?"
George Lucas: "Well that's certainly an idea rich in imagination."
Star Wars fan: "So it could have happened?"
George Lucas: "Well anything can happen as long as it doesn't conflict with my vision, I've never really thought about it to be honest."
Yeah, people just hate the Force=God who creates a Chosen Warrior.
Though, to be fair, it seems less like Jesus and more like Mithras.
Yeah. I also like how it would almost be a statement of the blindness of Sith teachings. They seek power over the Force, and yet they still have to use the Force to achieve power over it (which was pretty much Kreia's complaint). While Plagueis/Palpatine may have thought they were manipulating the Force in their interests, in the end the Force had the last laugh.
I always got an anti-Christ vibe from the virgin birth thing, really. He's a subverted messiah, in that he causes a lot of evil before fulfilling his destiny.
That, and his son's suffering is what redeems. George is very visual, and you'll notice the "hanging" imagery in Empire. Which of course is foreshadowing Luke's suffering at Palpatine's hands being the catalyst to Anakin's redemption and fulfilling his destiny.
It is hinted at in the movies because using dialogue only, we know Anakin MAY have been conceived by midi-chlorians and that a sith lord could manipulate midi-chlorians to create life. Conception via Force alone has no basis in the movies and is only fan assumptions made after seeing TPM.
Actually it would go something like this:
Star Wars fan: "Did Anakin's mom know she was impregnated by a Sith Lord?"
George Lucas: "No Anakin was conceived using a sith force technique without her knowledge. I originally wrote the scene where Palpatine admits to it, but changed it to be more sublte because it was too similar ESB.
Yeah, because the force does not = a deity. It is an energy field CREATED by all living things. Not to mention, what I think most people hate, would be a story where the force creates a chosen warrior that turns evil, murders children, and enslaves the galaxy.
I can't say that I know Lucas' mind whether he always intended it but he seemed to claim it during the Phantom Menace era and defend his choice.
Also, the Jedi found it strange but not at all out of the realm of impossibility.
Given Qui Gon believes in a Will of the Force, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Collective Consciousness created by all living things that passes for God in the GFFA.
Actually, that's kind of an old school concept, canonically speaking. It goes all the way back, WAY back, to the very first edition of the WEG Star Wars RPG.
"The Force grew stronger as life grew stronger. Life is the universe's way of perceiving itself; the Force is the strength of its perception.
As life grew, evolved, became more sophisticated, there came intelligence -- and with it, the capacity for understanding. Intelligent beings questioned the universe, and when they were clever enough to ask the questions in the right way, the universe answered. The Force became stronger, more sophisticated, as intelligence spread and sapient's knowledge of the universe deepened." - Star Wars: The Role Playing Game, 1st ed., p. 68
"Does the Force use the Jedi, or the Jedi use the Force? To use the Force, one must be at harmony with it. Only when calm, at peace, can one act with assurance of control. When on is at harmony with the universe, one acts as one must to maintain harmony. The will and the Force are one; the actor and the acted upon, the same. There is no contradiction: there is unity." - Star Wars: The Role Playing Game, 1st ed., WEG. p. 69
Essentially, the Force's sophistication and "aggregate intellect," so to speak, grow along side of life, becoming more complex, more all encompassing, and stronger.
Given the GL gave his personal notebook to WEG for the creation and background of the RPG, it's no surprise it speaks of an almost intelligent, all encompassing "will" of some sort, behind the scenes.
where in the movies is it hinted at that Anakin was created by the Sith?
I remember hearing that Sith could prevent death
but where does anyone say that a sith lord could create life?
Palpatine says it in ROTS.
It still depended on Anakin's choice. If he had remained on the dark side, the dark side would have had the last laugh.
The sources are not necessarily inconsistent.
He never would though, so it's moot.
Not in OOU terms of "what is likely to happen at the feel-good end of a movie trilogy", but in-universe he had choice and could have stayed on the dark side.
Yes, which is why the future is in motion and Anakin's choice was IMPORTANT.
Well, yeah, of course. I was just speaking metaphorically about why I like how it makes it ironic from a wider narrative point of view. I wasn't trying to make a factual statement about it, just why I like the idea that Palpatine/Plagueis were involved through how it smacks of "be careful what you wish for".
The collective consciousness of the beings creating/sustaining the energy field known as the force is probably what Jinn calls it's will, but that does not mean that the energy field gained sentience or is divine. The will could be the energy field seeking its natural state, ala other forms of energy.
As far as where it is said a sith lord could create life, it is during Palpatine's little talk with Anakin at the opera.
Lucas also removed that Palpatine said it. I think it's meant to be ambiguous rather than something that is 100% certain.
I also think that dismissing the Force having a Will as in being sentient is also something that is silly.
It's a merger of Western and Eastern traditions, not straight Taoism or Buddhism.
But Your Mileage May Vary.
For what it's worth, you also have the cut script to chew on:
Honestly, I can understand why he cut (or at least altered depending on one's POV) that particular dialogue, as it really is way, way too close to ESB. ("That's impossible!"? Come on George, you can at least do better than that. ).
With how many ideas from the original drafts for the OT got recycled back into the PT though, I daresay while Lucas would never give a categorical statement as to what the final script means beyond the ambiguity that ended up in the film, he's probably still open to the idea if he was ever to go back and film a ROTS SE or something and decided to play with it. For now though he obviously just decided to leave things open to interpretation.
But, yeah, I can fully understand why that original script got cut for something that was not quite so "I am your father"ish. Heck, it wasn't even "quite so", it was literally exactly the same.
I prefer the final dialogue really. It's more ironic in its subtleties. When he talks of Plagueis and "creating life", you get a feeling that the Sith believe they can control life; then come ROTJ when he finally gets his just desserts he realises that in the end he and his Master had only been deluding themselves, and that life is not theirs to control, whether they created Anakin or not.
If Anakin was going to be revealed as a creation of the Sith on the screen, it'd have worked better at the end of episode 2, with Palpatine pulling a "your destiny lies with me, Skywalker" and Anakin, unlike Luke, deciding that "Yes, it does".