Did anyone not like the story of TPM?

Stone Jedi: "Who are you to say something like that? You are insinuating that we can't deal with jar jar?"

Go-Mer: It seems obvious to me, I thought you guys were saying you didn't like him, and that he actually ruined some of the scenes he was in. it doesn't matter if the majority couldn't handle him. It doesn't change the fact that many couldn't.

Stone_Jedi: "So now you are deciding for us that Star Wars just isn't our thing anymore?"

Go-Mer: No, you are. It seems to me that the only reason you still love the classic trilogy, is because it got into your acceptance bin before your cynical adult "taste" strainer was hired on to keep you from enjoying movies that are beneath you. You have already fallen in love with it when you were younger.

Of course, this is only my opinion, and you have to understand where I am coming from. TPM is really not a bad film at all. It isn't even a bad SW film. It may not be the best, but there is a whole lot to like about it, even if you have outgrown the ability to roll with Jar-Jar.

You feel TPM is somehow not a good movie, and that it will not go down in the history books as another score for Lucas. You couldn't be further from the truth. Your very obsession with complaining about it will ensure that alone, let alone the legions of fans who don't think cute and clumsey are inherrantly not SW.

 

VCT: "It is not what TPM was, but what it was missing, that bothers me about it."

Go-Mer: I know this only too well. And that is the biggest example you could give me to back up my claim that you have just outgrown the ability to enjoy a new SW movie.

When you saw ANH, nobody could say it didn't have this or that, because nobody had ANY expectations what so ever. You get to ESB and the neagative reviews I have seen immediately point out that it is NOT ANH.

Well no duh! Of course it isn't what ANH was. Nor should it have been. It is the same with TPM. If you could just for a moment quit obsessing over what TPM is not, and instead look to see what it IS, then perhaps you have a chance.

If you beleive Episode I is a lost cause for you, perhaps you will be able to approach the next one with a more open mind, and less expectations.

Beleive me, I wish I didn't have to put it like this. I wish you guys knew how to appreciate new SW films already. But I think some of you need to remember what it was to be a kid again. To be able to roll with things you werent expecting.

To meet Lucas half way. As you all have said, the sucess of the classic tirlogy wasn't because of George alone. It happened because there was a generation of open minds willing to accept the film as it was.

You want me to be more nice about it? I will agree with you that something went horribly wrong with TPM and many SW fans. But if you can't even ponder the possiblity that it wasn't at the very least entirely Lucas' fault, then there will be no reconciliation.

Your focus determines your destiny.

A rigid building has a better chance of being blown over compared to one that bends and accomodates the winds.

 

Also, in ANH, Artoo and 3PO were quite the comedic duo and they provided a great deal of exposition.

While the droids did not do slap-stick humor (although 3PO did slap Artoo around a couple times), they were there for some degree of comic relief; more importantly, they provided exposition. For those who were turned-off by Jar-Jar's humor, the character lost his purpose during the middle part of the film. Whereas, this wasn't the case with the droids, who proved their worth on several occasions. 3PO may have been a dithering neurotic, but he was a dithering neurotic who had a useful purpose in the OT.

 

Jar-Jar didn't lose his purpose, you did.

 

Stone Jedi: "Who are you to say something like that? You are insinuating that we can't deal with jar jar?"

Go-Mer: It seems obvious to me, I thought you guys were saying you didn't like him, and that he actually ruined some of the scenes he was in. it doesn't matter if the majority couldn't handle him. It doesn't change the fact that many couldn't.

I guess you misunderstood my question, or perhaps you didn't read the entire post, but I said that we have no problem handling jar jar, it's just that we don't like him. That has nothing to do with not being able to handle him. I can handle him, but I dislike him. BTW, I love his character in TPRE.

Stone_Jedi: "So now you are deciding for us that Star Wars just isn't our thing anymore?"

Go-Mer: No, you are. It seems to me that the only reason you still love the classic trilogy, is because it got into your acceptance bin before your cynical adult "taste" strainer was hired on to keep you from enjoying movies that are beneath you. You have already fallen in love with it when you were younger.

Errrr....Wrong again. Don't go making assumptions about people that you don't know. I love Star Wars because I view it as a timeless classic. It is truly a timeless film. And ESB has some great moral messages presented to us, mostly by Yoda, along with the greatest surprise in cinema history. ROTJ gives us a good finale to a great saga, and contains one of the most dramatic deaths in film history.

And don't feel bad because I have taste and you choose to accept everything as it is.

You feel TPM is somehow not a good movie, and that it will not go down in the history books as another score for Lucas. You couldn't be further from the truth. Your very obsession with complaining about it will ensure that alone, let alone the legions of fans who don't think cute and clumsey are inherrantly not SW.

I have a feeling this will all end as soon as EP2 comes out. People will simply forget about TPM.


Jar-Jar didn't lose his purpose, you did.

Sounds like flaming to me. But I expect nothing less from you Gome.

As for jar jar's purpose, watch TPRE. That jar jar has a purpose. He is wise and valiant, and even comical. He is anything but slapstick.

 

Go-Mer, once again you completely miss my point. I am NOT even comparing TPM to the Original Trilogy. I bring them up to support points, but I am really looking at it on its own, just AS A FILM -- with no other expectations.

And I don't know how much more simply I can put this -- The movie lacks competence at a very fundamental level. In many ways, it is just an example of bad filmmaking. Poorly developed characters. Lack of motivation or personality in the characters. Lack of any sense of history in the characters. Lack of any reason why we should care about these characters.

Yes as a child I wouldn't have been able to see this quite as clearly. I probably would have been enthralled by the action and special effects. I might have even laughed at Jar Jar. But when it came right down to it, I would have thought that the characters were boring. I would have thought that the movie looked very cool but I would have forgotten the characters and story as I got older since they made little impression on me. Kind of like "Battlestar Galactica." It didn't make anywhere near the impression on me that Star Wars did, for the same reasons. And I was the same age when I saw that one. Oh, I enjoyed it, but as I grew up I left it behind, unlike Star Wars. Even as a kid I instinctively understood why I cared about one a lot more than the other. And if a story and characters like TPM came along when I was a kid, I might have liked it but I would have wound up leaving it behind as well. Why? Because the characters were weak and I didn't truly care about them.

You are essentially telling me that I can't accept the fact that Lucas has made a movie that left out some of the most essential principles of good filmmaking. Fine, I stand accused. But he did not do this on purpose, I assure you. It is not out of some grand artistic vision that he has for the new films that he left out good characterization. He just forgot to do it, and it is sloppy on his part. I just hope he doesn't make the same mistake with the next one.

 

"I will agree with you that something went horribly wrong with TPM -- "

Ok, that statement to me says that you put some burden of this on TPM itself (you'll noticed I didn't copy/paste the comment you followed it with, I am well aware of your thoughts on the fans). What do you think went wrong with TPM, the movie itself? And don't get into a long thing about fans and expectation, I understand your view on that already. It was been well stated.

I think you have valid points, VCT. The lack of character development didn't bother me, though, because I already knew the characters, except the Queen (whom I disagree, I thought they developer her OK, not great, but OK), Qui-gon (knew he wouldn't last the movie, so I did not try to become attached to him), Jar-Jar ('nuff said), Anakin and the new villians (whom I thought were nicely and appropriately developed). The thing is, I knew how this story would end already, so I to me, the characterss were simply there to tell me how everyone get to EIV. Now, had I sense EI as the first SW movie ever, at the age of 25 (my age when it was released), I would have enjoyed it (as I did), but would not be a SW fan, not yet anway. There was nothing there to pull me in, like the others had.

 

This Gomer person isn't for real....right?

 

Stone_Jedi (before): "Who are you to say something like that? You are insinuating that we can't deal with jar jar?"

Go-Mer (before): It seems obvious to me, I thought you guys were saying you didn't like him, and that he actually ruined some of the scenes he was in. it doesn't matter if the majority couldn't handle him. It doesn't change the fact that many couldn't.

Stone_Jedi: "I guess you misunderstood my question, or perhaps you didn't read the entire post, but I said that we have no problem handling jar jar, it's just that we don't like him. That has nothing to do with not being able to handle him. I can handle him, but I dislike him. BTW, I love his character in TPRE."

Go-Mer: I thought you felt Jar-Jar ruined parts of TPM.

Stone_Jedi (before): "So now you are deciding for us that Star Wars just isn't our thing anymore?"

Go-Mer (before): No, you are. It seems to me that the only reason you still love the classic trilogy, is because it got into your acceptance bin before your cynical adult "taste" strainer was hired on to keep you from enjoying movies that are beneath you. You have already fallen in love with it when you were younger.

Stone_Jedi: "Errrr....Wrong again. Don't go making assumptions about people that you don't know. I love Star Wars because I view it as a timeless classic. It is truly a timeless film. And ESB has some great moral messages presented to us, mostly by Yoda, along with the greatest surprise in cinema history. ROTJ gives us a good finale to a great saga, and contains one of the most dramatic deaths in film history."

Go-Mer: Right, you have accepted it as a timeless classic when you were younger. Now there is no questioning it with your adult mind. Thats all I am saying.

Stone_Jedi: And don't feel bad because I have taste and you choose to accept everything as it is."

Go-Mer: My mistake. I guess I assume people want to enjoy themselves.

Go-Mer (before): "You feel TPM is somehow not a good movie, and that it will not go down in the history books as another score for Lucas. You couldn't be further from the truth. Your very obsession with complaining about it will ensure that alone, let alone the legions of fans who don't think cute and clumsey are inherrantly not SW."

Stone_Jedi: "I have a feeling this will all end as soon as EP2 comes out. People will simply forget about TPM."

Go-Mer: Yeah, right. Just like when people were saying that ROTJ would be forgotten as the worst SW movie ever.

Go-Mer (before): "Jar-Jar didn't lose his purpose, you did."

Stone_Jedi: "Sounds like flaming to me. But I expect nothing less from you Gomer."

Go-Mer: You could be flamed by a plant if you ask me.

Stone_Jedi: "As for jar jar's purpose, watch TPRE. That jar jar has a purpose. He is wise and valiant, and even comical. He is anything but slapstick."

Go-Mer: So if something is slapstick, then it has no purpose in your mind? Well thought out line of reasoning you have there.

 

VCT: "Go-Mer, once again you completely miss my point. I am NOT even comparing TPM to the Original Trilogy. I bring them up to support points, but I am really looking at it on its own, just AS A FILM -- with no other expectations."

Go-Mer: Prove it. Come up with a reason why TPM was not a good SW movie without comparing it to the classic trilogy.

VCT: "And I don't know how much more simply I can put this -- The movie lacks competence at a very fundamental level."

Go-Mer: Well put, but dismissive and lacking of any basis. It is much more competant than most of the crap coming out of Hollywood these days.

VCT: "In many ways, it is just an example of bad filmmaking. Poorly developed characters. Lack of motivation or personality in the characters. Lack of any sense of history in the characters. Lack of any reason why we should care about these characters."

Go-Mer: Thats what they said about ANH when it came out you know. Here is a quote from the New Yorker from '77: 'Star Wars: A film with comic book characters, an unbeleivable story, no political or social commentary, lousy acting, preposterous dialouge, and a ridiculously simplistic plot, in other words, a BAD MOVIE'

VCT: "Yes as a child I wouldn't have been able to see this quite as clearly. I probably would have been enthralled by the action and special effects. I might have even laughed at Jar Jar. But when it came right down to it, I would have thought that the characters were boring. I would have thought that the movie looked very cool but I would have forgotten the characters and story as I got older since they made little impression on me."

Go-Mer: So easy to say this with an adult mind isn't it?

VCT: "Kind of like "Battlestar Galactica." It didn't make anywhere near the impression on me that Star Wars did, for the same reasons."

Go-Mer: I thought that the reason Galactica wasn't as cool had to do with it having no realy epic story other than a vague quest for Earth. Kind of the same reason Voyager didn't do so well.

VCT: "And I was the same age when I saw that one. Oh, I enjoyed it, but as I grew up I left it behind, unlike Star Wars. Even as a kid I instinctively understood why I cared about one a lot more than the other."

Go-Mer: Because you didn't care about the characters?

VCT: "And if a story and characters like TPM came along when I was a kid, I might have liked it but I would have wound up leaving it behind as well. Why? Because the characters were weak and I didn't truly care about them."

Go-Mer: I contend that is your own fault.

VCT: "You are essentially telling me that I can't accept the fact that Lucas has made a movie that left out some of the most essential principles of good filmmaking."

Go-Mer: You toss that around like you know what it means. Can you explain to me why it is "bad filmaking" in your mind? Because I have said before, I think he is more on his game with Episode I than he ever was with the classic trilogy.

VCT: "Fine, I stand accused. But he did not do this on purpose, I assure you. It is not out of some grand artistic vision that he has for the new films that he left out good characterization. He just forgot to do it, and it is sloppy on his part. I just hope he doesn't make the same mistake with the next one."

Go-Mer: From where I sit, the characterisation of the classic tirlogy came in the second film. This was one of the big complaints about ANH before Empire came out was that they were all cardboard cutout characters. And if ANH didn't have ESB, they would have been right. He is using the three part structure. The first film is all about saying Here are the characers, and where they are coming from. It isn't until the second film that they actually start changing and showing their character arc.

You think TPM is flawed, but I see it as very well made as far as SW films go. Again, I would love to hear how it is an example of "bad filmaking". I am not trying to tell you he screwed this film up on pupose, I am saying he made it right on purpose, with the occasional mistep here and t

 

"While the droids did not do slap-stick humor "

R2's fall after being shot by the jawa was classic slapstick, and the first big laugh that Star Wars got. 3po does his Moe impression and kicks R2 once and hits him ones - just for laughs.

 

Go-Mer (before): "I will agree with you that something went horribly wrong with TPM -- "

Darth-Stryphe: "Ok, that statement to me says that you put some burden of this on TPM itself (you'll noticed I didn't copy/paste the comment you followed it with, I am well aware of your thoughts on the fans). What do you think went wrong with TPM, the movie itself?"

Go-Mer: There was this huge freak of a sandstorm that wiped out most of the Mos Espa sets and tossed around and destroyed several full scale Pod Racer props. Of course they figured it out. Sometimes the eyelines didn't work out as well as they should have. You could really see the Learning curve for Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Amidala had the same kinds of issues in that regard. I thought that some of the CG wasn't completely beleivable, such as Boss Nass' cloak. Some of the mask work was a little easy to pick out, such as the lizard vendor in Mos Espa. George Lucas would use his new computer technology to take the best parts of several different takes and paste them together into what he likes to call a "SuperTake". Most of the time, this is seamless, but there is at least one scene that comes to mind where they end up with both Padme and Qui-Gon introducing themselves to Shmi at the same time, with only audio for Qui-Gon. It is really hard to tell, especially on VHS, but It could have been done better. Some of the pickup shots have Obi-Wan looking a little puffier, both in the face and with his hair which is longer. Darh Maul's horns were made out of this flexible foam type suff and sometimes it really looks it. Sometimes they looked obviously glued on.

But really, TPM is by no means a "perfect" film, it is just good enough. In the end, that's how good anything can be. There are things that blance out any kind of flaws in the production such as the incredible story with a hidden subplot, and the amazing choreography in all of the saber weilding sequences. The near flawless CG animation for Jar-Jar, Watto, Sebulba, and especially the Battledroids, Ian McDiarmid's performance as Sidious/Palatine, The impeccable pod race sequence, which was almost entirely modeled in a computer, right down to the ultra realistic crashes complete with spinning scrap metal projectiles that interacted with the ground in ways that are indistiguisahble from natural physics. Ewan McGregor's obvious effort put into mimicking the likeness of Alec Guiness' performance. Liam Neeson as a Jedi knight, the incredible design of the Niemodian vehicles based on jungle animals (ie the tank was supposed to suggest a pouncing lion, the MTT transports were supposed to look like a charging bull elehpant etc.), and combining that with the motif of the BattleDroids, which were modeled after African art. The sleek, stylized look of the Naboo's chrome plated ships, the killer Republic vehicles, such as the Republic Cruiser (which was practically lifted straight from Ralph McQuire's ANH paintings). The dizzying renderings of Coruscant's cityscapes. The final realisation of the "Senate" which was merely mentioned in ANH. Vollorum being played by Terrance Stamp!, Sammuel Jackson as Mace Windu (and now they act as if they had no idea Sam's role would be expanding in II). As if you could have Sammuel Jackson as just a simple cameo as the second bananna to Yoda, and not expand it in the next one. The way the ending celebration had the Emperor's theme sped up as it's basis, signifying the true winner of TPM, even if the heros have no clue.

Darth-Stryphe: "And don't get into a long thing about fans and expectation, I understand your view on that already. It was been well stated."

Go-Mer: I could go over it again if you like...

Darth-Stryphe: "I think you have valid points, VCT. The lack of character development didn't bother me, though, because I already knew the characters, except the Queen (whom I disagree, I thought they developer her OK, not great, but OK), Qui-gon (knew he wouldn't last the movie, so I did not try to become attached to him), Jar-Jar ('nuff said), Anakin and the new villians

 

PettyWhineyMalcontent: "This Gomer person isn't for real....right?"

Go-Mer: Nope, I am just a chatbot created by ILM.

 

Was Darth Maul in the movie for Marketing only?

DM was obviously a more successful product than Jar Jar.

 

Hey everybody, no matter what we say to Gomer, he is just going to turn it around into something he likes better.

For example:

Stone_Jedi: "Errrr....Wrong again. Don't go making assumptions about people that you don't know. I love Star Wars because I view it as a timeless classic. It is truly a timeless film. And ESB has some great moral messages presented to us, mostly by Yoda, along with the greatest surprise in cinema history. ROTJ gives us a good finale to a great saga, and contains one of the most dramatic deaths in film history."

Go-Mer: Right, you have accepted it as a timeless classic when you were younger. Now there is no questioning it with your adult mind. Thats all I am saying.

Well, I guess he didn't really understand what I said. Maybe I should make myself a little more clear. I enjoyed SW when I was a little kid. I collected the toys, wore the underoos (I'm man enough to admit it), and dressed up like the characters at Halloween. But that stuff ended around 3rd or 4th grade. I had a giant gap in my life when SW wasn't that important. In high school, I decided to watch the movies again and found that I still loved them, even ROTJ. Ever since then, I enjoy watching them whenever I get a chance. So, I did not decide that they were a timeless classic when I was a kid. I decided that after several years of, bear with me now, not watching them. Only after that time was I able to truly appreciate and realize how good the OT is.

Stone_Jedi: And don't feel bad because I have taste and you choose to accept everything as it is."

Go-Mer: My mistake. I guess I assume people want to enjoy themselves.

I want to enjoy myself, when did you ever get the idea that I didn't? Where in my post did I say that? This is another example of him twisting around what I said to fit what he believes.

That said, I truly did enjoy TPRE. It was a major improvement on the original. I can truthfully say that I enjoy watching it.

Stone_Jedi: "I have a feeling this will all end as soon as EP2 comes out. People will simply forget about TPM."

Go-Mer: Yeah, right. Just like when people were saying that ROTJ would be forgotten as the worst SW movie ever.

What people? Do you have any direct quotes, or are you making this up? Or possibly twisting it around to fit what you believe? And BTW, TPM has eclipsed ROTJ as the worst SW movie, but that's not saying much, since ROTJ was really good and TPM was subpar.

Stone_Jedi: "Sounds like flaming to me. But I expect nothing less from you Gomer."

Go-Mer: You could be flamed by a plant if you ask me.

I didn't ask, but since you keep flaming me, I guess you are proving yourself to be correct!

Stone_Jedi: "As for jar jar's purpose, watch TPRE. That jar jar has a purpose. He is wise and valiant, and even comical. He is anything but slapstick."

Go-Mer: So if something is slapstick, then it has no purpose in your mind? Well thought out line of reasoning you have there.

When did I say that slapstick doesn't have a purpose? Hmmm... Nope, not in there. Sorry Gome.

What I said was that in TPM, jar jar doesn't have much of a purpose. In TPRE, his role, his character, is the best one of the bunch. He had me chuckling over and over again.


So does everyone see? Gomer turns all of our arguments around to fit what he wants to hear. Maybe this bickering with him is pointless. Maybe we should all stop fussing about a second-rate film and look forward to hopefully a great, first-rate film next summer.

Me? I'm going to watch TPRE over again, to catch what I missed the first time!

 

Bye!

Don't forget to write!

See ya on the TPREPEPM board!

 

Grand Admiral Wettengel: But did George need to have fart jokes in ANH, ESB or ROTJ? Did he have a character that did nothing but goof-up?

Go-Mer: No, but then again, he never had a double bladed light saber, a race for sport, or a Political backdrop in the in the Classic Trilogy either. You can't just get hung up on something because George hasn't done it before. Jar-Jar IS a new kind of humor for the saga. That doesn't make it "wrong" or not "SW". If you don't like it, then that just that you don't like it.

 

I'm not leaving Darth23. Don't think you're getting off that easy.

I just won't be posting as often. Since TPRE is the version I prefer, I really don't have a whole lot to complain about.

One good thing that comes from it is I have a whole new set of questions about the movie. And they apply to both TPM and TPRE. I will probably never get around to posting them, but oh well, no blood no foul.

 

Gomer, you bring up another question. Was the Rebellion vs. the Empire not a political backdrop in the OT? What about the meeting between all of the Moffs/Governors on the Death Star? Were they not discussing the Imperial Senate? Wasn't there the whole them about freedom from the oppression of the Empire? Is that not political? The Empire is the ruling political body, isn't it? I guess maybe you missed that part.


Also, racing T-16's were not racing for sport? They were mentioned but not shown, I understand, but they were still there. I guess you missed that part as well.

 

Wow, TPRE sure has made you, um, more jovial.

 

Yes it has. Thanks for noticing.

But you forgot to answer my questions!

 

Go-Mer: "Prove it. Come up with a reason why TPM was not a good SW movie without comparing it to the classic trilogy."

Look Go-Mer, we can agree to disagree. About a year and a half ago I wrote an extensive list of reasons, along with my analysis as to why, TPM wasn't a very good movie. I'll admit that I did make some comparisons to the OT in it, but the essence of what I was saying didn't need those comparisons because I was pointing out what I believed were fundamental problems. And while of course you disagreed with me, you seemed to understand where I was coming from. Since I'm not going to re-write all of that here, let's just leave it at that.


Go-Mer: "Well put, but dismissive and lacking of any basis. It is much more competant than most of the crap coming out of Hollywood these days."

On a purely technical filmmaking level, TPM is brilliant. But I'm talking about Screenwriting 101 - Character Development. Only a token effort (if that) is made to give the major characters personality, and in that sense it is only about on the same level as most of the crap coming out of Hollywood these days.


Go-Mer: "Thats what they said about ANH when it came out you know. Here is a quote from the New Yorker from '77: 'Star Wars: A film with comic book characters, an unbeleivable story, no political or social commentary, lousy acting, preposterous
dialouge, and a ridiculously simplistic plot, in other words, a BAD MOVIE'"

I think time has proven that guy wrong. And I have no way of proving it, but I seriously doubt that time will be as kind to TPM. And even that guy didn't say that the characters in ANH had no personality. All I expect out of a movie of the genre (I won't even say Star Wars, lest you accuse me of comparing to the OT again) is to have fun heroes to root for and nasty villains to root against. I don't expect Shakespeare. In TPM we got very bland heroes and a sadly underused villain.


Go-Mer: "So easy to say this with an adult mind isn't it?"

Not really. I said the same things (using a kid's vocabulary) when explaining to my friends in grade school why I liked Star Wars better than Battlestar Galactica. The only characters I liked in BG were the Cylons, since they looked and sounded cool. I didn't even like or root for any of the human heroes.


Go-Mer: Because you didn't care about the characters?

Because I liked and cared about the characters in SW and not in BG. I thought this was obvious.

Go-Mer: "I contend that is your own fault."

If it is my fault for not holding bland and poorly-developed characters near and dear to my heart just because they appear in a Star Wars film, then so be it. At least I'm thinking for myself.


Go-Mer: "From where I sit, the characterisation of the classic tirlogy came in the second film. This was one of the big complaints about ANH before Empire came out was that they were all cardboard cutout characters. And if ANH didn't have ESB, they would have been right. He is using the three part structure. The first film is all about saying Here are the characers, and where they are coming from. It isn't until the second film that they actually start changing and showing their character arc."

Sure, ANH had stereotypical characters that weren't fully developed. But at least they were fun, vivid characters that were memorable and seemed full of life. Which is far more than you can say about the main characters in TPM.


Go-Mer: "You toss that around like you know what it means. Can you explain to me why it is "bad filmaking" in your mind? Because I have said before, I think he is more on his game with Episode I than he ever was with the classic trilogy."

Look, Star Wars is a character-driven story. Lucas would be the first one to admit that. It is not abstract high-concept art cinema like 2001. With that in mind, I would say that when a film with a character-driven story doesn't bother to make the main characters strong or interesting, then you have some bad filmmaking as a result.

And yes, I think I do have an idea what it means.

 

VCT: "On a purely technical filmmaking level, TPM is brilliant. But I'm talking about Screenwriting 101 - Character Development. Only a token effort (if that) is made to give the major characters personality, and in that sense it is only about on the same level as most of the crap coming out of Hollywood these days."


Go-Mer: Well, screenwriting 101 deals with single, stand alone films, not a trilogy. From what I can tell, the apparent lack of characterization is an assett in the three part storytelling method. They start out as a certain archetype, then they transform over the course of the next two films. Perhaps the teachers of filmaking 101 would do well to learn from Lucas.

Go-Mer (before): "Thats what they said about ANH when it came out you know. Here is a quote from the New Yorker from '77: 'Star Wars: A film with comic book characters, an unbeleivable story, no political or social commentary, lousy acting, preposterous
dialouge, and a ridiculously simplistic plot, in other words, a BAD MOVIE'"

VCT: "I think time has proven that guy wrong."

Go-Mer: So it is possible then that TPM's detractors could be proven wrong over the years?

VCT: "And I have no way of proving it, but I seriously doubt that time will be as kind to TPM."

Go-Mer: Time doesn't have to play a part because many people actually did like it. Just as many people liked ANH despite some critic's dismissal.

VCT: "And even that guy didn't say that the characters in ANH had no personality."

Go-Mer: That is what he was getting at with his "comic book characters" bit.

VCT: "All I expect out of a movie of the genre (I won't even say Star Wars, lest you accuse me of comparing to the OT again) is to have fun heroes to root for and nasty villains to root against."

Go-Mer: Check, and Check. I thought you said you were let down.

VCT: "I don't expect Shakespeare. In TPM we got very bland heroes and a sadly underused villain."

Go-Mer: From where I sit, we got very exiting heros and an expertly hidden villan.

 

Of course Gomer is sitting in a different time/space continueum, so it stands to reason he would see things a bit differently.

 

Hey, whatever makes it go down easier for you.