Did Darth Sidious love Darth Maul?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Latorski, Mar 6, 2005.

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  1. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    I know conventional wisdom states that Sidious uses everyone and cares about no one, but he'd trained Maul since he was a child.
    We don't know much of Sidious' backstory, and its possible Maul was his first apprentice.
    He might have been like a son to him.
    The Sith can have attachments. They have feelings.
  2. Cereal_Killa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    If there was a cut scene of Sidious from TPM holding Maul's cut lightsaber all by himself and crying saying that now he has to get a new apprentice then you might be on to something. But there isn't. He has no feelings for any of his apprentices other then "Oh well got to start over again."

    That is it.
  3. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    Friendship is altogether different on the dark side. Maul is nothing more than a useful tool to assist in Sidious's goals and aspirations. There's not evidence to support that Sidious actually 'cares' about anyone other than himself.
  4. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    i think rather than love, it would have been more like the pride of a craftsman in whatever he labours a long time to produce.

    when Maul died then Sidious would just have to start over and train a better apprentice
  5. Sith-Jedi-Master Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2004
    star 4
    Well he trained him from birth and he was he apprentice...

    So yeah i think there was a bond there...but nothing in the father and son...sidious used him more like a pawn in a chess game to get to his goal.
  6. MANDALORIAN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 4
  7. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    "We are indebted to your bravery, Obi Wan Kenobi"

    I think Sidious definitely had a bond with Maul, whether that was built on love - i don't think so, more pride (as has been mentioned) and perhaps even fatherly expectations/admirations, but not fatherly love.

    He definitely repays his debt to Obi Wan by turning Anakin though.

    - O_F
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  8. Darth_Ramsis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2005
    star 1
    Love is a bold word to describe their relationship. They had a working relationship. Darth Maul was Sidious' weapon and an extension of his will. I would agree that Darth Maul was a source of pride for Sidious and that it pained him to lose him but only in the sense that Maul partially failed in his duty by only killing Qui-Gon Jinn. But Sidious never shed a tear for Darth Maul. In the end, Maul would have come after Sidious for control and the title of Dark Lord of the Sith. It more than obvious that Sidious had already put his back up plans in motion in the event that Darth Maul failed him. So no, Sidious didn't love Maul as father to son, teacher to student, but loved him as one would love their car or another possession.
  9. LordBlack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 3
    True Sith dont love.
  10. darthYENIK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 2
    Maybe sidious forsaw darth maul's demise, and qui-gon taking anakin as his apprentice. And figured, it was a fair trade off. Cause who knows what would have happened if qui-gon lived to teach anakin.

    Anyway back on topic. I figure he saw Maul as a pawn in a chess game. You could keep him to protect the king, but their true purpose is to die in the end.
  11. Soloman66 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Love is a strong word. The Sith have feelings - that is what gets them in trouble - lures them to the dark side. However, Sidious had to know that his apprentice would have trouble defeating both Jedi. Remember that his ultimate goal at the time was to create dissention in the galaxy - governments, jedi, etc.
  12. DarthVoltaire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    No, Sith do not love anything. They only hate.
  13. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    I wouldn't say that he loved him, or that he was heartbroken by Maul's death. However, I'm sure that he felt something akin to loss. Even if he is pure evil, you don't train someone in a one-on-one relationship from birth without developing some sort of bond with them. It would be like teaching your only son to be an assassin from birth, his only goal in life to kill your own enemies. No matter how much you detached yourself, his death would effect you, even if you saw it as no more than a wasted investement in time and knowledge. The craftsmanship analogy was good, kinda like somebody burning down your handmade log cabin or stealing a car you spent years personally modifying. You can replace it, but it takes time to grow into the new one.
  14. black_saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    No Sidious is a user. He uses people to achive what he wants and Diseres most. All sith have done that.
  15. DeadDooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 2
    Hmmm Jedi are forbidden to have attachments as well, yet the bond of master to apprentice is very strong. Vader DID hesitate to kill his Master in ROTJ which almost cost him his only son so that bond is powerful. I think Sidious does have feelings or attachments of some kind to Maul, Dooku, and Vader but his first order of business is to be a mean Sith so I wouldn't say he "loves" them.
  16. Darth_Zoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think so.

    In RotJ he wasn't even seem interested in looking sad that Vader was getting is bum beat down by Luke. He sat there and laughed at the whole thing.

    Sidious is a cruel and hateful man. He probably had pride towards Maul but definetly not love.
  17. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    He was probably proud of the killing machine he had produced but, other than as his most trusted tool I don't think he had any feelings for Maul.
  18. SKIMBLESHANKS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2005
    star 1
    Uhhh Darth Maul was Sidious adopted son... So yeah I guess.
  19. Ben_Watson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2004
    star 3
    I wouldn't think so, though we can't count Anakin on Sith feelings because he's not normal to either Jedi or Sith.
  20. DarthSuicide Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2004
    I've always got the impression that Sidious did in his own kinda way love Darth Maul.

    On the other hand ,he felt nothing for Dooku and Vader.
  21. Adm_Thrawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2004
    star 4
    Sidious had no illusions about Maul.

    He was a tool, nothing more.

    He didn't love any of his apprentices.

    He saw all of them as a means to an end.

    Again, nothing more.
  22. Master_Trance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2005
    star 2
    Of course he didn't Maul was just used once he dided Sidious got a new one and it was reapeted I feel no Sith Lord loves he only cares for himself
  23. Adm_Thrawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2004
    star 4
    Excatly.

    When Maul was cut down on Naboo, Sidious shrugged his shoulders, and got a new one.
  24. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    If Sidious loved Maul, then it was a sick and twisted love. Sick and twisted in the way of taking someone you raised from an infant to live in the dark side to be a highly trained killing machine. Speaking of Maul, when they showed during the Naboo battle, it would have been awesome if the naboo troops opened fire on him and he quickly finished them off with some saber action.
  25. seventyard Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2003
    star 1
    One thing that's interesting about Sidious' successive apprentices is the increasingly decreasing amount of effort he's willing to put forward. Maul, he trained from youth. Dooku was already a jedi and only needed to be turned to the dark side. Anakin is clearly already powerful and is even already leaning Sithward - all he needs is a slight nudge (whatever that nudge may turn out to be).

    Here's an interesting follow up to the original question: did he really intend Dooku to be his Varsity apprentice or just a place-holder until he could turn Anakin, whose power he sensed at the end of Episode I?
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