Saga Did Disney commit an "orginal sin"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Obironsolo, Jun 17, 2017.

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  1. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    George Lucas created the universe- all credit to that. However I think the EU had better stories than the Lucas films. And I am a younger fan. Stories like Legacy for example are just better in my opinion. I try to judge more on storytelling, creativity and characters over visual flash.
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  2. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 4
    Firstly I don't know what Georges story was for VII and secondly we have no way of knowing if that would have been better or even done as well as the story we ultimately ended up getting. I'm sure Disney at the moment feel justified in what they've done as TFA was a huge success and RO to a lesser degree as well.

    I've never been one to think that a film or story made by someone other than Lucas in the SW universe is going to be a bad thing. As long as its a good SW film or novel then thats all I'm interested in. I trust the people at LFL and Disney to know what they need to do to make SW films, for me they did a good job on the new ones.

    Was it arrogance to get rid of his story? I don't know. Who made that decision? Iger? Kennedy? JJ? Maybe they didn't like the direction it was going in. Maybe Disney & LFL had already got people together to thrash out ideas on the future of SW that they wanted to see.

    In a way its a sad epitaph to his legacy that they binned his story. Thats not to say they may not have used elements from it, but I suppose at the end of the day it was now Disneys property and they are entrusted with ensuring it doesn't fail. They are not going to make bad movies on purpose. So they want and need them to work. It seems it depends on which side of the fence you fall on - SW is nothing without Lucas v SW with anyone at the helm. Like I said I just want to see good SW films and won't prejudge on whos writing or directing them.
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  3. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    There hasn't even been any confirmation that there ever was a "story".

    Considering that in previous collaborations, the screenwriter received one side of paper with and outline. And that the "story" would build, change and evolve based on visual concepts provided by ILM etc etc. It seems rather unusual that people have decided that a "story" was suppressed or ignored in some way.

    Was it not reported that the idea that Lucas might have had for a sequel trilogy, if he'd been interested in making one (which he wasn't) was only provided to Disney on their request because Lucas was selling Star Wars to them, and Disney wondered what his ideas might be if Disney went ahead and made a sequel trilogy.

    It was when he recognised that this did not mean that all his ideas would or should be used, and that he wouldn't have everything his way as he had before, that George realised that it was better to remove himself completely.
  4. Talos of Atmora Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2016
    star 4
    Honestly, saying that this is an original sin is like saying that any Star Trek material that has been made post-Gene Roddenberry is an original sin. While some can be described that way (the Abrams films :p ), it has become so successful to the point where people want to see more and possibly see someone take a crack at the universe besides the original creator.

    I don't think we would have gotten anything like The Thrawn Trilogy (and all other related novels), the Dark Horse comics, the NJO series, TCW (for all the canon folks), etc. had we treated every Star Wars story that didn't pop out of George Lucas' mind as a form of blasphemy.
    Last edited by Talos of Atmora, Jun 19, 2017
  5. Jesta' Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2017
    star 1
    I'm a Legends lover who loves TCW.
  6. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 4
    What is interesting to note is how quickly in terms of fans and media that TFA's (for the fans mentality) enthusiastic early days changed since then and since R1 again. To the point where RJ is saying that no he's not simply remaking Empire the way TFA remade ANH. Of course TFA threw plenty of Empire and the other movies as well.

    Many remain fans of and like TFA but soon enough recognized that many aspects of it were less effective past the early viewings. When you have something that is so nostalgia driven as TFA was being made for fans who watch the original 6 movies that nostalgia is based on in the first place then it's effect becomes far less. R1 set in the past is far fresher and forward looking than something that is supposed to be 30 years beyond ROTJ.

    Now going from several steps back in TFA how will TLJ take a huge leap forward? I don't know as you are now stuck with base designs that have to carry forward.

    Lucas's stories whatever they were are likely problematic from the get go because the story in them doesn't allow for all this nostalgia that was ultimately at the core of the ST and TFA story.
  7. ThisHurricane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2015
    star 3
    Disney was more concerned about money with EP7 its why the movie is a rehash of EP4 instead of a new story, to make money off nostalgia. Its cool though they apparently gave Rian Johnson more freedom for The Last Jedi.
  8. Jo Lucas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2015
    star 4
    It's a common thing in Hollywood nowadays. They're afraid to try new things. That's why there are so many sequels (Fast & Furious 45) and reboots (female Ghostbusters). When they were making TFA, they wanted it to be a total sucess, that's why it is a ANH rehash.
  9. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    You don't understand. TFA and TLJ and IX are the results of Lucas's decisions, even if they're different from his 1-page outline of the trilogy (which he might have come close to himself in later drafts, even if he didn't sell or stayed heavily involved). TFA is just as "official" as TESB. But I'm not going to argue anymore with you. I have to get ready to move and for my new job.
    Last edited by Ghost, Jun 19, 2017
  10. PymParticles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2014
    star 5
    I'm actually confused by something... you frequently call TFA a "rehash" or "unoriginal" and suggest it was made the way it was solely out of monetary concerns. But in the ranking thread, you placed it in the upper half and called its script a piece of art.

    I'm honestly just curious as to your overall feelings on the film and if you could clarify them? Because they don't seem to exist on the polar spectrum most subscribe to wherein either "TFA is a rehash and it sucks" or "TFA is not a rehash and it's great."
    Last edited by PymParticles, Jun 19, 2017
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  11. Jo Lucas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2015
    star 4
    A lot of blockbuster movies are good. The Force Awakens shares a lot of similiarities with A New Hope, sure, but the script is well crafted (if you analize it with screenwriter's eye). The characters are fun, the pacing is good... it amazes me how the people who made the film made it with love.

    TFA don't suck, I don't remember saying that. I said it is a rehash of ANH.
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  12. PymParticles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2014
    star 5
    I didn't mean to suggest you did, I was only saying most people who call it a rehash also use that as a core reason they either don't like the film or outright think it's bad, and that's why I was curious as to your full thoughts. But you seem to have a more nuanced perspective on the film rather than judging it in its entirety on a polar spectrum. I respect that, thank you for clarifying.
    Last edited by PymParticles, Jun 20, 2017
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  13. Obironsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 2
    Strange that you use the two previous trilogies to make the point about each having their own cast, considering that the role Lucas wanted Luke to have in TFA was going to exactly mirror the role Obi Wan played in ANH. By not having Luke in it til the end, the sequels actually break the trend you speak of as opposed to continue it.


    And as far as the idea that it requires more imagination to leave Luke out of the story then include him? I guess I see your point, in the sense that when I was a little twelve year old kid dreaming about sequels to the SW trilogy, I might have thought, "Imagine if they ever made Episode VII and Luke wasn't in it til the last second..." Yes, that would've required a lot of imagination on my part, because it makes no sense, and wasn't what anyone would've wanted. To not have the Big Three together made no sense. That was the only opportunity to do it, and they chose not to? You think JJ realizing that Luke could be the MacGuffin was some brilliant stroke? While I like TFA, it felt a little hollow, because, as the filmmakers themselves conceded, the story really starts with Luke.

    Imagine if you didn't see Obi Wan in ANH until the last second.
    Last edited by Obironsolo, Jun 20, 2017
  14. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    Discussion of Disney-era Star Wars Films now belongs in the Mega thread.

    Locking.
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