Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by BDOT, Oct 25, 2012.
Hayden Christianson deserves a lot more credit.
Really? I must have watched a different trilogy. Luke was really only whiny in A New Hope. Anakin was whiney in all three prequels. So Anakin wins.
I never said Luke doesnt whine, im just saying that Anakin whines more.... even as newborn baby Luke
I don't know. I love Luke's character to death, but I think he was whiny in ESB -- when he's complaining to Yoda about "what am I even doing here?!" and "you ask the impossible." The second is particularly egregious because he leaves, puts on his jacket, and goes to pout in a corner.
I'd say they're equally as bad, truthfully. Like father like son.
But I don't think it's a bad thing; it makes them more human that they have flaws -- and not just "cool" flaws, but petty and even obnoxious flaws.
"What am I even doing here?! We're wasting our time!"
"I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience..."
I just have to ask, are you really the Morgan Freeman?
This Anakin/Luke (who whines more) comparison is a bit pointless. They both whine. They're both flawed. They're both belligerent. They're both immature and arrogant. It's almost like they're.... related. Weird.
Anyway, neither of them whine as much as Threepio.... didn't stop him being liked though, did it?
I should say that Luke is probably my favourite of the two characters. But I find Anakin all the more interesting. And Hayden's portrayal has plenty to do with that. But, like almost all of these issues, my assessment of the character/actor's qualities is purely subjective.
Luke is just like his father.
Beru does say "He has too much of his father in him" in ANH.
Then you've got Yoda saying "Much anger in him- like his father."
Oh god not this again! Yes Hayden was great...Better than Portman in a lot of instances, he actually gave it his all and cared for the character... As I said in another thread, it doesn't matter who would have played Anakin, since people have a problem how he's written.
The way some people feel about Jar Jar, that's how I felt about Threepio in ESB growing up. "OH MY GOD, JUST SHUT UP!"
....but was actually likeable, unlike Anakin.
Anakin is likeable, ur just jealous that he is a total badass
I'm a huge Luke fangirl, I think he's more whiny than Anakin. His circumstances just aren't as bad.
Anakin: Was a slave that was later forced to participate in a war, was not allowed to express attachment/emotions over his deceased mother, had to keep his family secret, lost his hand, eventually got boiled alive in lava. The Jedi Council, especially Mace Windu, assumed he was dangerous from the moment they found him and treated him accordingly. Did not really complain throughout it all. *
Luke: Was a moisture farmer and whined about that the entire time, until Beru and Owen died. When learning Vader was his father, and losing his hand, he was acting like it was the end of the world. (Despite Yoda AND Obi-wan warning him repeatedly that he wasn't ready to go.)
*One exception: The time he was on the council but not with the rank of master. That was outrageous and unfair.
All a matter of opinion. There is none here of any greater/less authority.
"Oh it just isn't fair! Biggs is right, I'm never gonna get out of here."
"But I was going into the Tosche Station to pick up some power converters!!"
"It's not as if I like the Empire, I hate it. But there's nothing I can do about it right now!"
"What a piece of junk!"
"Well look after yourself, Han. I guess it's what you're best at!"
"With the blast shield down, I can't even see! How am I supposed to fight?"
"What are we doing here? We're wasting our time!"
"You want the impossible"
"Master, moving stones around is one thing but this is totally different!"
"Hey! That's my dinner!"
"You could have broken this!"
Letting things get on top of you and moaning about them is, to a degree, part of the everyman aesthetic. Such things represent us - our very common flaws and weaknesses. I look at Anakin and Luke and not only see the teenager I once was but attributes I, like many, still (unfortunately) have today; ones I can easily display when vulnerable. I don't think they should mean a character is derided. People should, in my opinion, find better (and more consistent) reasons for their dislike. There are plenty of qualities in either character to even these weaknesses out. The fact that some people criticise Anakin for "whining" about his recently murdered Mother and yet ignore some of Luke's relatively petty gripes is not only utterly laughable, it also appears to be evidence of a wider agenda.
The complaint that Anakin "whined" in the Lars garage is thankfully not as common as it was post-AOTC but it still makes me shake my head. I'm not sure why anyone expects stellar, mature, happy-go-lucky behavior from a 19-year-old kid whose mother died in his arms after being kidnapped and beaten.
(And I'm referring to the so-called whining in the garage, not Anakin's behavior in the camp itself- that dead bantha doesn't need to be resurrected and beaten again.)
I once read that Hayden Christianson was stopped in the city on the sidewalk by a young boy who ridiculed his performance as Anakin Skywalker. He then proceeded to chase the kid down street. His place in the role of "Darth" never shone more brightly in my opinion than at that moment.
That aside, I think that Hayden performed the best he could with the material he was given. A lot of fans' problems with the PT films it would seem, is that they didn't showcase enough of Anakin's piloting abilities, didn't focus enough on his storyline with Padme, he seemed whiny and the story didn't have a sufficient amount of detail centered on his inwardly becoming Darth Vader. As Hayden had nothing to do with any of those choices, I feel that he played his role efficiently.
I do wonder what it would have been like had the original boy who'd played Anakin in TPM re-assumed the role though, as I thought he did a terrific job in TPM.
In fact, whatever happened to him?
All I'll say is that Hayden gave wonderful performance of Anakin. I can't imagine anyone else in that part.
If you ask me, Hayden did as well as Anakin as a lot of the other actors did playing their characters.
Not to mention the skill that must have been needed for the duel with Ewan (Obi-Wan). I don't think anyone could have been better (out of actors, that is). People just weren't ready for the prequels. Nostalgia blinded them into think that only OT content was good, and that nothing could ever come close. So they blocked the prequels from ever being good before they even came out. And then came Jar Jar... He's not too bad, but that really kicked off the prequel hate. Attack of the Clones gave the critics and fans alike exactly what they wanted, but of course we had to blame Hayden Christenson for not being Harrison Ford - even though some moments were on par with him IMO. Now the ultimate movie, RotS, comes out. Best movie in the past 15 years. But of course, people still hated. Arghhhhhh!
Two best Luke whines in the OT, I'd vote.
Indeed. I recall some teenage poster saying that he had many friends who had lost their mothers, and none of them were "pansies" about it like Anakin supposedly was. He had many friends who had lost their mothers...at the age of 15? Where did he live, in a war zone? (In other words, his claims were bantha poodoo.) And I fail to see how Anakin's rage and guilt and blaming of others as well as himself -- all perfectly normal emotions in the face of the tragic, violent loss of one's mother -- was "being a pansy."
I've also seen people condemn Anakin's "whininess" by saying that Luke was whiny in ANH but left off whining in ESB, whereas Anakin started out whiny in TPM and got more so in AOTC. First of all, that kind of overlooks the fact that Anakin has exactly the opposite journey from Luke's, so if he is "whinier," it's kind of understandable. Second of all...what are they talking about? Luke whines twice as much in ESB as he does in ANH! It's not until the supposedly "juvenile" and "kiddie" ROTJ that he leaves off whining.
But according to these sages, Luke "complains" in ESB, but he doesn't "whine." His tone isn't whiny like Anakin's in AOTC. Uh huh. Can we say "deliberate obtuseness" and "cognitive dissonance," boys and girls?
Hayden did a fine job with a difficult part...a part that many people had written out in their minds long before he was ever cast. Not only that, their version of Anakin was a study in contradictions: he was uber-cool, a great pilot and warrior, and completely good...but also "badass" and deeply flawed, but his flaws were "cool," and also explained explicitly why he turned to the Dark Side...another thing that was "cool." His turn to the Dark Side should apparently have been a process that made him look thoughtful and smart and sophisticated, judging by the complaints I've seen about how his turn to the Dark Side "makes him look dumb." He "should have" done this or that rather than trusting Palps. Well, yeah. Isn't that kind of the point? That he "should have" done this or that, but turned to the Dark Side instead?
Ha, the dinner quote is hilariously goofy now that I actually see it quoted. Way to keep it together, Luke.
His "Don't do thaaat!"tone when Yoda's going through his luggage is worse than anything I heard from Anakin.