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PT Did Hayden do a good job as Anakin?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Rotticus, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    What does delivery of OT dialog have to do with Hayden's performance? The thread title doesn't ask if Anakin was as whiny, or more whiny than Luke... it asks how Hayden did. Just saying.:)
     
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  2. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    It's raised because fans tend to state their dislike of Hayden's portrayal/Anakin's character as being down to his "whiny" nature, while, at the same time, ignoring such similarities in characters they find more likeable... such as Luke. There are better and more consistent reasons for any dislike and it's sensible enough to seek those reasons.
     
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  3. Ganger

    Ganger Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    Well I also think Mark Hamill gave one of the worst performances of the trilogy so that reference means nothing to me. Given the terrible dialogue they have to execute is no wonder some of these performances come out as cardboard cut outs ("No, It's because I'm so in love with you!"). Even the wonderful Sam Jackson gave the most boring performance of his carreer.

    That said, one of the things that threw me off the most from Hayden's performance was his tone of voice, so flat and heartless (raising your voice doesn't mean you are angry) and his "evil" face looks like an emo kid. It's a "nobody understands me" face. Ok so Luke was his 19 year old son and he was whiny as hell when he wanted to pick up those power generators from Tosche Station, but that doesn't mean that his father who is Darth *****ing Vader has to play that card as a full grown jedi knight turning into a sith lord. Using that supposed parallel as argument is pointless.

    Only great actors can execute Lucas dialogue with credibility, it must be hard as hell, I wouldn't want to be on that spot. Ford, McDiarmid, McGregor, Daniels and Neeson could pull it off but others just couldn't elevate the performance. Queen Amidala is SO boring, and so is Anakin. Since their love story doesn't make sense, his conflict loses weight, so in the end all you get is this flat actor executing horrible dialogue with a very plain tonal delivery.

    So, did he do a good job? Probably the best he could. Is he an awful actor? Probably not, but he just couldn't elevate the stiff dialogue
     
  4. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    ^^^This.


    ^^^^This x 10.

    The "OT quoque"* fallacy should be considered an automatic off-topic. [face_shame_on_you][face_talk_hand][face_not_talking];)

    * "the OT did it too!!!"
     
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  5. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Humorous asides are humorous x 13.

    On topic: caught a few minutes of Clones on TV a few weeks ago. Tusken confession still floors me. For pure visceral emotion and gut punch dramatic impact, the scene is unmatched in the saga for me.
     
  6. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    ;)
     
  7. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    It's not about simply saying "the OT did it too!" to justify something. You miss the point entirely. It compares one's position, should they state it, that "something in the OT is great" against the opinion that an equivalent in the PT is "terrible because of X" and then pointing out that X is actually also a key component of the thing they thought wonderful.
     
  8. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    The fallacy is in assuming that there are only two scenarios, a character is "whiny" or he is not. When in reality the frequency of "whine" scenes, the length and the reasons for why the character is whining are important too. Whining can be justified and fitting occasionally, like when the hero finds out his father is a monster.
     
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  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Or when an little green stranger is messing with your stuff?
     
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Or, when you can't go buy power converters.

    Also... when you guess you're going nowhere...
     
  11. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    I agree. I like a lot of characters who "whine". Hooper in Jaws and Daniel in Karate Kid are just two that leap to mind. But there is more to a character than that. People dislike Anakin more than Luke for sound enough reasons which I'm not going to dispute. However, more often than not, whether they realise it or not, those reasons are not to do with his whining. And that's another valid reason for comparing the two.
     
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  12. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Yes, he was whining in ANH and later in TESB, alright. But aside from those two scenes I can't think of any in which he is actively annoying, at least to me.
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Level of annoyance is subjective, but I was personally far more annoyed by Luke when he bumped his head on Yoda's hut than I was by Anakin when he told Padme that Obi-Wan was overly critical and didn't understand.
     
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  14. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    He's also quite annoying in the cantina meeting with Han and a few other scenes, in my opinion. But that's the thing. He's meant to be annoying in those scenes. Just like Jar-Jar frequently is. The irony is that people here end up whining about characters who whine, way more than said characters did in the first place :p

    Precisely.
     
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  15. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Depends how you define whining. I don't think an expression like "what a piece of junk!" is even close to whining.
     
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  16. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Except I've never heard someone say that Luke's 'whining' is one of the things that make ANH or the OT 'great'.....;)

    edit:


    :cool:


    ^^^^This X infinity. :p;)


    That's where the 'parallel' argument fails, in my opinion.
     
  17. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    It's more 20% what you say and 80% how you say it (or thereabouts). Even without that example, Luke has many instances where he is "much like his Father".

    Nor has anyone I know ever claimed Anakin's 'whining' to be one of the reasons that the PT is great. But if you're looking for someone who would put forward the case for both things (or at least why they're to the benefit of the characters/films in question), I might just be willing. :)

    It succeeds in showing a person's perceived dislike of a character to be badly reasoned.
     
  18. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Anakin: "It's not fair!"
    Luke: "Power converterrrrrrs!"
    Both are equally whiny in some respects ^_^
     
  19. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Sounds like something Sidious would yell/scream/shout when he's blasting someone with Sith lightning......

    ;)
     
  20. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Films, not fans... no need to skirt the line.:)

    More like:

    "CONVERT & this POWWWAH can be urs...." ;)

    :p
     
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  21. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    o_O A misunderstanding perhaps? It was very relevant to the particular topic being debated at that point. It was nothing personal or targeted at any one individual.

    One wishing to discuss in any great length a character's lack of popularity should, at some point, query whether the reasons for that dislike are valid. That's all that was happening. I maintain; if your position is that Luke is a very likeable character, yet Anakin annoys you because he is whiny, such thinking can be logically disputed. However, if stating this position goes against forum rules, I will say no more. [face_peace]
     
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  22. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Underrated actor for sure.
     
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  23. Darth Eddie

    Darth Eddie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 14, 2013
    I was on the "Hayden sucks" bandwagon for a long time, until I started having dying-mommy-issues of my own, and now Hayden's Anakin is one of the most powerful and meaningful characters to me in all cinema.

    I also think Matt Lanter's Anakin informs Hayden's character extraordinarily well. (In fact, TCW improves upon countless perceived flaws of the Prequels, but that's another discussion.)
     
  24. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    I think Hayden gets a bad rap, in part, because he's necessarily playing Anakin in the worst moments of his life. When you consider AOTC, for example, right from the beginning, we see Anakin when he's already stressed out over dreams of his mother and Padmé's life is in danger -- both people he cares a lot about. Then, of course, we hear that he has never been on a mission on his own. I can imagine how he's incredibly frustrated; think of all those teenagers bristling under their parents' wings to go to college at age 18. But this is compounded by the fact that AOTC is largely a film in which Anakin takes a lot of hits in a short while; he fails a lot in this film. And there's a war brewing in the background which, of course, increases tensions.

    ROTS, though, goes without saying. Between Palpatine's kidnap, Padmé's life in danger, asking to spy on the Chancellor, Palpatine's subsequent betrayal, the guy's got a lot to slog through (and he fails rather miserably at dealing with it).

    Lanter, I think, benefits from playing Anakin in his element -- as an effective commander who is making a difference in the galaxy.
     
  25. Darth Eddie

    Darth Eddie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 14, 2013
    /\ When I see TCW Anakin, I think myself, "Now THAT'S the father of Luke and Leia. THAT'S the man who shall become Darth Vader. THAT's a what a Star Wars hero is like." Anakin in the films is more like, "This kid is just like me."

    The only thing the Prequel era has generally left me wanting more of is "The best starpilot in the galaxy" engaging in a few more sophisticated dogfights than we see anywhere.
     
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