Did I somehow see the wrong version of AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by kenoidewi, May 16, 2002.

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  1. Bail-AnBillies Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    I can't even remember what happened in The Matrix. All I know is that I didn't think it was as wonderful as everyone said it was. As for Ep2, it kicks some serious butt, IMHO. The first time I saw it I was kinda disoriented b/c so much stuff happened, but I saw it 6 or so times after that and believe me every time u see it it gets better.
  2. Draculas_guest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2001
    star 2
    (Yawn), slag off the Matrix because that got more critical acclaim than TPM, just typical.

    "A plot that ripped off nearly every other sci-fi film ever made. "

    And how many Akira Kurosowa films did Lucas rip off when he made AOTC? How many action adventure serials did Lucas "borrow" ideas from when he was making SW. A harsh critic could tell you that SW is a rip-off of Flash Gordon if they were feeling partiularly bitter. Of course when Lucas uses ideas from other movies and books, it suddenly becomes "genius" storytelling. Yet when a film like "The Matirx" is influenced by William Gibson Cyberpunk novels, its labelled as a rip off
  3. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well there's a difference between taking story elements from Kurosawa and mythology and ripping off 80's sci-fi and Twilight Zone episodes and almost word for word ripping off recently released comic books. I don't think people would mention it as much if there weren't phillistines out there, actually claiming that The Matrix was original.

    Anyway, the OT were simple stories that would inevitably have themes common with older sci-fi. I don't think the PT is derivative of much of anything.
  4. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I think Star Wars and The Hidden Fortress are very similar indeed, hmmmm...? Hey! It was me that listed The Matrix! Want to know why I mentioned rip-off movie The Matrix!?!?

    Because no matter how terribly I thought I was going to hate it, for all the reasons people here apparently hate it, The Matrix was actually a good movie with characters I was interested in, and it had an intriguing story. Not everyone's cup of tea, but neither is Star Wars.

    Another, maybe better comparison of films might be between Star Wars and The Big Lebowski. Those two films are ensemble casts of sorts, with a "shaggy dog" format. Sam Elliot is great as Chewbacca.
  5. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Wow, why were you interested in the characters in the Matrix? Everyone was emotionless and bland.
  6. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Why doesn't Lucas have people in his SW films anymore? For the most part, SW and ESB are about Rebel humans fighting against Imperial humans. ROTJ added in Ewoks and Mon Calamari.

    Now, with the PT, it's mostly CGI critters. And most of the Jedi in the arena had those ridiculous Star Trek-thingies pasted on their heads.

    I don't care about CGI things.
    I don't care about hordes of aliens.
    I don't care about hordes of droids.

    I care about humans fighting in a noble cause, as the battle of Yavin or the battle on Hoth. The only moment I had any feelings for anyone in that gigantic battle at the end of AOTC was when Kenobi felt that fallen Jedi's pulse.

    The few genuinely good moments in AOTC involve Kenobi when he's interacting with other actors who aren't teen models. Kenobi talking with Jango on Kamino was great, but him talking with the Kaminoans tanked. Kenobi talking with Dexter tanked. Kenobi talking with Hayden tanked.

    Aliens, CGI, and all that sort of stuff is like frosting, and the human story is like the cake. I like a little bit of frosting, but the PT has been about 90% frosting with a 10% drop of cake. :(
  7. Iconmatrix Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    dude your crazy....the star wars univers has tons of races and tons of planets....i think its cool having not only humans in a movie....and as for The Matrix i loved it its the most innovative film since starwars with an intriging storyline and great acting...keanu delivered a great performance and the guy who played morphius is great...now it doesnt have natalie portman which is a big plus for star wars but besides thta its my second favorite movie only second to star wars(which i consider the series all one movie as it is meant to be)so quit bashing it just cuz it got good reveiws
  8. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Binary, I guess you must hate Yoda, too. :)
    I see your point, but I must respectfully disagree. Obi-Wan talking with Dexter and the Kaminoans are two of my favourite parts of the movie. Why? First of all, the interaction between Ewan and the CG characters is the most successful I've seen in a movie yet. Unlike some parts of TPM, I actually felt that a flesh and bood actor was inhabiting the same space as CG creations in AOTC.
    Secondly, Dexter and especially the Kaminoans were genuinely alien creatures that didn't feel like anything on Earth. You mention Star Trek - one of the things I love about the prequels is that we're not just seeing actors in rubber masks or with horns stuck on their heads like in Trek. CG aliens actually look and feel like aliens, not an actor pretending to be an alien. Maybe you prefer to travel to a galaxy far, far away and watch just humans, but I don't.
  9. Darth_Menace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 2
    you say that "the dialogue was horrible, the acting horrible"...maybe I saw the wrong verion of the old trilogies. cause i know for a fact that there is horrible acting and horrible dialogue in the old trilogy, but does that mean its not good? noooo...the old trilogy is amazing and it even has some of the traits that you give to episode 2. i think we have to give the PT 20 years and than alot of people will accept it for a movie and not be so critical
  10. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Look what happens when I change a few words from the post at the top of the page:

    I still don't get how anyone can claim a film like AOTC has the magic of The Matrix with a straight face. What was this magic? Unlikeable heroes killing innocent people (Anakin)? A plot that ripped off nearly every other fantasy vision ever created? Glowing swords badly choreographed complete with a green Sonic the Hedgehog running around at the end for 30 seconds?
    Yeah, that's better than The Matrix.

  11. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, that's better than The Matrix.

    Finally we agree on something.
  12. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    AOTC is a rip off and The Matrix is original? Strange. Offhand, I can't think of any movies where the main character starts a decent into evil with the backdrop of a scheming politician fabricating a war by creating two armies and pitting them against each other. However, I can sit an rattle off the names of movies, comic books and Star Trek episodes where people are trapped in a vitual reality world and machines rule the world.
  13. Alec_Guinness Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 1
    "The few genuinely good moments in AOTC involve Kenobi when he's interacting with other actors who aren't teen models."

    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!
  14. sgbani Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2002
    star 1
    "No way. Whoa. No way, No way."
    - The heart of Keanu Reeves' acting

    Characters in The Matrix definitely had color. ;)
  15. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    DarthHomer, I think you and I have been disagreeing about aliens in the SW galaxy ever since Oct. 2000. Sometimes old arguments (like old friends) are the best kind of all. :)
  16. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    That's very true, Binary. This place wouldn't be the same without ya :)

    abmccray, you seem to have missed my point. First of all, Anakin isn't supposed to be a completely likeable hero. He's gonna become Vader, remember? However, I think that the filmmakers did want us to like Neo, Morpheus and Trinity in The Matrix, and for me they failed miserably. I didn't see anything heroic about a bunch of terrorists taking it upon themselves to free people from an artificial reality where most people were happy and take them into a real world where everything is desolate and miserable. Maybe the heroes will be revealed as the villains in Matrix 2 - that would be a good twist. Until then, I'm on Cypher's side :)
    Don't get me wrongo, I did enjoy The Matrix. But I think even the prequel bashers would agree with me that it doesn't hold a candle to ANH or ESB.
  17. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    How do you hold a candle to a film? And for what purpose?
  18. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    AOTC is a rip off and The Matrix is original? Strange.

    Et tu, moderator? Quite clearly I did not call AOTC a rip-off, nor did I call The Matrix completely original. Quite the opposite, as both movies borrow heavily from other sources. The evidence is in my post, just a bit further up the page. You'll find I didn't mention AOTC, but Star Wars. I mean, of course, A New Hope.

    Offhand, I can't think of any movies where the main character starts a decent into evil with the backdrop of a scheming politician fabricating a war by creating two armies and pitting them against each other.

    This reminds me of the the true story of the rise (or fall, depending on your "point of view") of the Bush family set against the backdrop of Illuminati-fabricated wars of World War I and II, and the subsequent cold war, Cola War, Gulf War, war on terrorism, etc. Bush's pal Reagan even named his space defense program in homage to Lucas...
  19. Sithchilde Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 1
    PadmeBra said:

    "Offhand, I can't think of any movies where the main character starts a decent into evil with the backdrop of a scheming politician fabricating a war by creating two armies and pitting them against each other. However, I can sit an rattle off the names of movies, comic books and Star Trek episodes where people are trapped in a vitual reality world and machines rule the world"

    Well, if you phrase it like that, of course AOTC is going to sound more "original" then The Matrix.

    But you could just as easily say:

    "I can't think of any movies where the main character is a office worker who secretly acts as a computer hacker and is recruited by a subversive organisation which believes him to be "the chosen one", and reveals to him that he, along with the rest of humanity, are being used as power generators by hyper intelligent computer systems. However, I can sit and rattle off the names of movies, comic books and fantasy novels in which a flawed hero falls in love with a woman he shouldn't whilst an a evil power plots to win a war".

    Get the point?

    Anyway, both AOTC and The Matrix have their fair share of...influences. It's the EXCECUTION that matters.
  20. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I didn't see anything heroic about a bunch of terrorists taking it upon themselves to free people from an artificial reality where most people were happy and take them into a real world where everything is desolate and miserable.

    I'm sure there are other boards where people can discuss The Matrix, but real quick, I think this question above is at the heart of the story -- should we accept a complacent yet false reality, or a difficult yet actual reality of suffering and pain (with the potential of destroying the matrix and bringing real happiness)? A similar question was posed in Star Trek: Generations; Picard and Kirk ultimately decided that stopping A Clockwork McDowell was more important than a family Christmas and horseback riding respectively.

    Not that it has to, but does AOTC challenge the audience with any similar human dilemmas? As a child, I always thought Luke should have joined Vader at the end of ESB, because they might bring order back to the Empire (and Luke wouldn't have to jump off the rail). After ROTJ's happy ending, I really didn't think about it so much, but it was an interesting debate at the time.

    After watching AOTC, I could only wonder why Star Wars had turned cartoon.
  21. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    so you don't consider ROTJ or TPM cartoons?
  22. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "I'm sure there are other boards where people can discuss The Matrix, but real quick, I think this question above is at the heart of the story -- should we accept a complacent yet false reality, or a difficult yet actual reality of suffering and pain (with the potential of destroying the matrix and bringing real happiness)?
    Not that it has to, but does AOTC challenge the audience with any similar human dilemmas? As a child, I always thought Luke should have joined Vader at the end of ESB, because they might bring order back to the Empire (and Luke wouldn't have to jump off the rail).
    "

    I don't have a problem with the philosophical and moral debates in The Matrix. My problem was that I didn't find a single likeable character in it. That might work in a sci-fi/noir film Blade Runner, but I felt in The Matrix we were supposed to cheer when the heroes killed everyone in their path in order to rescue Morpheus. All I could think about was all those families in The Matrix wondering why their security guard daddy wasn't coming home that night :)

    As for interesting dilemmas in the prequels, what about Anakin slaughtering the Tusken Raiders? That's an example of a hero committing a horrific act, but I could still sort of empathise with him because of the loss of his mother. In AOTC we have the conflict between the "ideal" Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda) and the flawed or corrupt Jedi (Anakin or Dooku) which created plenty of drama, IMO.
  23. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    TPM is also a cartoon, but only after the SE abomination can ROTJ also be considered cartoon. I half-expect Dick Van Dyke and Angela Lansbury to waltz onto the set singing about how easy sugar makes medicine go down.
  24. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    A thought? Anyone . . ?
  25. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    I think the problem with the original poster is that you have just simply grown up. I have too- so when i watch these new films i try and get back to how i felt and thought when i was younger- ie become a big kid again. Plus Rick McCallum did say these films are mainly for kids. I love TPM and AOTC for the shear entertainment value.
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