Did I somehow see the wrong version of AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by kenoidewi, May 16, 2002.

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  1. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5
  2. Tiu-Sen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 1
    THe greater a film is the pickier every1 gets, I personally loved it...


    -=Tiu=-
  3. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    That's right. Ever since their release there has been the biggest of conspiracies surrounding the quality of films such as Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Battleship Potemkin, The Godfather, It's A Wonderful Life...
  4. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    as some other gushers on this board like to say...

    please dont state your opinion as fact, Benwan. i feel the gushing and praise for AOTC is as unwarranted as you think the criticism is.
  5. Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 1999
    star 3
    I wish some of the "nitpickers" would give an example of a "Perfect","Flawless" Movie

    ;)
  6. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Oh, wait. R2 does do one thing. He saves Padme in that video game part. But that doesn't count because the entire droid foundry thing should have been slashed right out of the final cut and left lying on the cutting-room floor. When Anakin and Padme went through the door, instead of their little jaunt in the foundry they should have been immediately captured by Jango Fett.

    It's interesting that you should bring this up, Binary, because this is precisely what occurred in the revised third screenplay draft, was shot, and then was completely re-written and filmed during the pickup filming sessions.

    Here's how it works out:

    -------

    Revised Third Draft

    EXT. SPACE
    The Naboo Starship heads toward the rings of Geonosis.

    EXT. GEONOSIS, LANDING AREA
    The Naboo Starship lands.

    INT. COCKPIT, NABOO STARFIGHTER - DAY
    ANAKIN switches off the engines. ARTOO and THREEPIO are in the navigation area of the cockpit. PADMÉ is in the co-pilot's seat. She gets up.

    ANAKIN
    Hey, where are you going?

    PADMÉ
    To find Obi-Wan.

    ANAKIN gets up and goes over to her.

    ANAKIN
    No! You're not!

    He grabs her arm.

    PADMÉ
    Let go of me!

    ANAKIN
    I'm not letting you go out there. It's too dangerous.

    PADMÉ
    What?!?

    ANAKIN
    It's my job to protect you. I said it's too dangerous. You're not going, and that's final!

    PADMÉ
    Don't you give me orders, Annie! I'm a Senator of the Galactic Republic. You have no authority to contain me, restrain me, or direct me! You remember your place, young man.
    (standing up)
    Now you can come along and protect me or stay here. It's up to you.

    PADMÉ storms out of the cockpit of the Naboo Starfighter. ANAKIN stands scratching his head, then follows. ARTOO BEEPS and WHISTLES.

    C-3PO
    Yes, it is, Artoo. Most confusing. One moment they're generating a pleasant mutual attraction, and the next, waves of violent hostility. Even though I'm programmed to understand them, I doubt if I ever shall.

    ARTOO WHISTLES a plaintive sigh.

    INT. GEONOSIS, CORRIDORS - DAY
    ANAKIN and PADMÉ enter the stalagmite city. They stop, looking around in wonder at the emptiness.

    PADMÉ
    (in a low voice)
    It's empty!

    They start forward. As they pass, the surface of the pillars seems to pulse slowly and move. High above, WINGED CREATURES grow from the pillars and detach themselves.

    INT. GEONOSIS, CENTRAL SQUARE - DAY
    ANAKIN and PADMÉ cross the square, reaching the middle. They stop suddenly, as FOUR GEONOSIANS grabs them. ANAKIN reaches for his lightsaber.

    PADMÉ
    Wait!

    TWENTY WINGED GEONOSIANS carrying weapons alight on the flagstones in front of them.The GEONOSIANS part, and COUNT DOOKU appears. He bows courteously.

    COUNT DOOKU
    Senator Amidala, I've heard so much about you.

    PADMÉ
    Count Dooku, I assume.

    COUNT DOOKU
    I'm delighted to meet you at last. We have a great deal to discuss, Senator. I hope you can keep your young Jedi under control.

    PADMÉ
    Don't worry, he's housebroken.

    INT. CONFERENCE ROOM (GEONOSIS) - DAY
    COUNT DOOKU sits at a large conference table with PADMÉ on the far side. ANAKIN stands behind her, with FOUR GEONOSIAN GUARDS standing behind him.
    JANGO FETT stands behind COUNT DOOKU, and SIX GEONOSIAN GUARDS stand behind him.

    PADMÉ
    You are holding a Jedi Knight, Obi-Wan Kenobi. I am formally requesting you turn him over to me, now.

    COUNT DOOKU
    He has been convicted of espionage, Senator, and will be executed. In just a few hours, I believe.

    COUNT DOOKU smiles.

    PADMÉ
    He is an officer of the Republic. You can't do that.

    COUNT DOOKU
    We don't recognise the Republic here, Senator. But if Naboo were to join our Alliance, I could easily hear your plea for clemency.

    ANAKIN grabs his lightsaber, but doesn't turn it on.
    And so on from there. Except that Anakin's lightsaber is confiscated by Jango Fett, unlike what happens in the finished film:

    JAN
  7. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    After liking TPM, and maybe being overhyped for AOTC, I really feel mixed about the latest installment of Star Wars. To me, it was a good movie with one script revision away from greatness. I walked out of the theater feeling like I missed something. Like what I watched was a trailer to the real movie. Speaking of trailers, the combination of the FOUR trailers nearly was the entire movie. Most of the ending ground battle scene was shown already. But I really felt like a lot was missing from certain parts.

    What was missing? As the music suggests, there's an ominus feeling throughout the first half of the movie (Coruscant + Kamino, beggining of Geonosis). We're wondering, what the hell is going on here? It keeps us interested. The music that was composed for the movie (Don't let me get started on the horrible music editing) added to the feeling. We feel like Obi-Wan himself. This was really good. Obi-Wan then discovers something going on at Geonosis, but is STILL confused about is really going on. We get a short scene with Dooku and the separtists, and Dooku and Obi-Wan. Jango hasn't appeared yet to Obi-Wan though.

    And that's where it is lost. No one seems to be interested in Jango Fett and what the deal with the separtists is. "Now we need that clone army". The mystery plot is lost, and is not solved. There is no discussion, everyone just wants the clone army. From there on out, it's just straight action scenes. If anything there, the first arena sequence was a bit long, and the ground battle outside the arena was too short. I know there were cut scenes from that. And what's the deal with Jango now? If he's in league with Dooku, shouldn't the Jedi be wondering about their new army?

    Although we fanboys know the answers, the audience is more interested in what the characters think onscreen. While some people might have been thinking "COOL!" this shouldn't be an excuse for not clearing up the plot.

    We didn't get a feeling for the Separtists in the movie. They're mentioned pretty much as the bad guys. They're rebelling from the Republic for... well, it's not clear in the movie. I had a problem with this in TPM as well. If you pay attention closely, you'll get it, and same with AOTC, but it needs to be in our face.

    The Love Story: Of course this ripped my attention from the Kamino mystery, but it wasn't all that bad. Hayden did a great job with the lines that he was given. Had the script been revised just *once* more, I think it would have been fine. A few lines bother me, but it's not that bad.

    The lightsaber duels.. As cool as Yoda fighting might be, it was a little ridiculous. Yoda's kung fu stance? Him flying around? [face_plain] Now, this is just a comment, but Palpatine's Force Lightning in ROTJ was really neat and freaky. There's Luke writhering in pain, and Palpatine laughing about it all. Now we have Obi-Wan just shrugging it off and Yoda deflecting it elsewhere. You might say, "This shows how unskilled Luke was, etc." While that might be true, we simply don't care about the lightning in ROTJ. Instead of thinking that the Emperor is evil, we think that Luke is just a wimp.

    To fix? Touch up some of the dialogue, and some acting. Deleted scenes to add: First Senate scene, though I don't know how "Wake up" sounded by Portman. More dialogue/discussion between the Loyalists/Council and Obi-Wan after his sneaking around on Geonosis. And add some more discussion in the room after that, as well as more some discussion in the senate hearing. Add the meeting with Padme/Dooku/Separtists and the Trial as well. As I hear it, there were a lot of cut scenes from the ground battle. Put them back in. I see pictures of Droid Starfighters, speeder bikes, more transports going off into space, put it back. Add some dialogue RE: the clone army.

    Other than that, the movie was fine :)
  8. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Leto II, thank you for your very informative post! IMO, the foundry scene seems like it was simply wedged in or tacked on. It turns out that it was! I didn't realize that it was done during pick-up shots.

    Emperor Dan wrote: And what's the deal with Jango now? If he's in league with Dooku, shouldn't the Jedi be wondering about their new army?

    Very good point. I still can't believe that Yoda and Mace were so blind as to blithely employ the clone army. If they were wise, they would have broken it up, dispersed the clones throughout the galaxy, and guided them into finding productive occupations. Instead, the 800-year-old Jedi Master dances to the tune of the 60-year-old Palpatine.
  9. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    They really had no choice, but I'm really surprised to see that they didn't talk about the army. They NEEDED the army, but isn't it strange that the original is a bounty hunter (weird) and that that bounty hunter now went to the base of the very people that his army is meant to destroy? Surely the master Yoda would have second thoughts.
  10. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    i thin the biggest problem here is Lucas is telling the wrong story in the PT. everything in it is everything we already know... it was all handled in a few lines of dialogue in the OT.

    why not, for example, make the movie about the origins of the jedi and the sith and what it really means to be a jedi/sith.

    thats just one of many possible stories that the PT could have been about. instead it (so far) comes off as episode 3.5... the stuff that happened right before the OT... the stuff we already know about.

    and i think that is the mistake IMO.
  11. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    thin should be think ^^^^

    damn typos
  12. Marsguo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2000
    star 2
    everything in it is everything we already know... it was all handled in a few lines of dialogue in the OT.

    C-3PO has made a quick summary of the OT in ROTJ with a few words and some soundFX , so you just have to watch these two passages from ANH and ROTh from now on ;)


    EDIT : complete EDIT
  13. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry Marsguo, but 3P0 himself admitted that he wasn't much of storyteller. Sure he's got some cool sound effects (like Vader's voice), but his AT-AT impression wasn't very convincing.

    Actually, I would rather have seen 3P0 sum up the events of TPM and AOTC both. What he could do in 1 minute would save me over 4 hours of screentime. But even then, what would 3P0 discuss? Would he make a sound effect for midichlorians and impersonate the Reek?
  14. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    you miss my point entirely Marsguo, 3P0 recounted that story AFTER WE HAD SEEN IT ALL. he recapped a story at the end. if anything it further proves my point that TPM and AOTC didnt need to be made as the story was already told BEFORE THE FILMS WERE MADE.

    get it?
  15. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi

    the opinion that 4 hours of film (TPM and AOTC) were a waste of time is hardly nitpicking.

    im not complaining about technical errors or continuity problems (though there were plenty, as well as pedestrain writing and weak directing)

    i am saying that the stories of TPM and ATOC were completely and utterly redundant.

    i love plenty of flawed films. i never said any film was perfect... the only place you will hear people saying a film is perfect is gushers defending AOTC and TPM on this board.

    Tiu-Sen wrote:
    "THe greater a film is the pickier every1 gets, I personally loved it..."

    yes and IMO that is why lovers of the OT are picky about the lesser films of the PT. because they are picky about the greatness of the films that came before. glad you loved it. i didnt.

    but its more than pickiness. its complete dissappointment for many.

    when a film is great, you dont think about the flaws... the film is supposed to make you not notice them because it is better than the sum of its flaws, thereby negating them.

    people say the PT is being held up to a higher standard... why wouldnt it be, considering the advances in technology and the TWO DECADES of thought that could have been put into them. Lucas raised the bar when he decided to make the films digitally and use digital backgrounds and CG characters. too bad hes ill-equipped to use them effectively. IMO

  16. Marsguo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2000
    star 2
    TPM and AOTC didnt need to be made as the story was already told BEFORE THE FILMS WERE MADE. get it?

    Then the story about the origin of the Jedi should not be a movie either , because there are books about it already.
  17. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    ok ill just let you go on thinking you know what you are talking about.

    at least other people here understand me.
  18. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Then the story about the origin of the Jedi should not be a movie either , because there are books about it already.

    Albeit EU crap that this post is in a way defending, I do agree with the sentiment. More and more I have the feeling that the prequels should never have been made.

    As William Goldman wrote in "Which Lie Did I Tell?", and I am paraphrasing, how did we expect these films to be any decent when noone in their right minds preferred RotJ to ANH in the first place.
  19. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "I wish some of the "nitpickers" would give an example of a "Perfect","Flawless" Movie"

    As would I :)
    Here's a little fun exercise that might clear things up. Before trusting a review by a critic, I usually check what they think of some of my favourite (and not so favourite) movies first, so I can see if their taste is close to mine. Part of the problem with this forum is that there's no perspective. Too many people say AOTC sucked/ruled without explaining why they think it is inferior or superior to other films.
    I'll go first:

    IMHO, AOTC is better than:
    Godzilla (but you knew that already)
    The Lost World
    Hook
    Face/Off (very overrated - hated the ending)
    TPM
    ROTJ
    Spider-Man (good, but not great)

    IMHO, AOTC is not as good as:
    2001
    Edward Scissorhands
    ANH
    ESB
    Toy Story 1 & 2
    Saving Private Ryan
    Apocalypse Now

    Those are all 10 out of 10 films for me. I give AOTC 9 out of 10. What it lacked in acting and emotional involvement was more than made up for by the excitement, spectacular effects and gripping plot.
  20. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    AL wrote: "More and more I have the feeling that the prequels should never have been made."

    I feel the same way. Lucas's execution of the prequels is sorry. Further, perhaps the very concept of prequels is flawed. Consider J. R. R. Tolkien's words in a letter to Colonel Worskett, dated Sept. 20, 1963:

    "Part of the attraction of The L. R. [The Lord of the Rings] is, I think, due to the glimpses of a large history in the background: an attraction like that of viewing far off an unvisited island, or seeing the towers of a distant city gleaming in a sunlit mist. To go there is to destroy the magic, unless new unattainable vistas are again revealed."
  21. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Fair enough exercise, DarthHomer. Before I do that, need I remind everyone that the 1977 Star Wars film is The Film Which Is As Perfect As Humanly Possible? :)

    I've never seen many of the movies on your list, but here's my comparisons of the ones I have seen with AOTC:

    AOTC is better than:
    Godzilla
    Hook
    TPM
    2001

    AOTC is not as good as:
    SW
    ESB
    ROTJ
    Spider-Man

    I never understood the appeal of 2001. I've never seen a movie with so little dialogue in my life. Call me a barbarian, but 2001 bores me to tears.
  22. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    i thin the biggest problem here is Lucas is telling the wrong story in the PT. everything in it is everything we already know... it was all handled in a few lines of dialogue in the OT.

    Whine some more please. [face_plain]
  23. AGGIE_WAN_KENOBI Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 1
    Did I somehow see the wrong version of AOTC ?

    Unfortunately, yes. Someone please take the scissors out of GL's hands. :p

    BTW . . . Binary, TPM wasn't that bad. Probably better than AOTC.
  24. Marsguo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2000
    star 2
    ok ill just let you go on thinking you know what you are talking about.

    Oh , thank you , doctor.


    "Then the story about the origin of the Jedi should not be a movie either , because there are books about it already."

    Albeit EU crap that this post is in a way defending, I do agree with the sentiment.


    I didn´t say they should make such a movie , I was answering Dr.Evazahn who would rather see that kind of story for the prequels.
  25. Rowland Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 1
    I think TPM is better than AOTC.

    To whomever said that AOTC is better than 2001, all I can say is that you sincerely have little taste in the artistic value of a movie. That's okay thought, I have a friend who thinks Major League 2 is better than Memento.

    By the way, I do think AOTC is better than ROTJ. I am watching ROTJ at this moment, and geez, I sometimes forget how much this movie sucks. It isnt bad by Star Wars standards, it had a good space battle and an emotional climax, but yeesh...

    Lucas with scissors, lol, reminds me of a commercial I saw for an upcoming episode of South Park that mocks Lucas. Looks funny, I intend on watching it. The South Park episode that was a homage to the Simpsons was so hilarious.
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