Did I somehow see the wrong version of AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by kenoidewi, May 16, 2002.

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  1. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    ok here we go

    "IMHO, AOTC is better than:
    Godzilla (but you knew that already)
    The Lost World
    Hook
    Face/Off (very overrated - hated the ending)"

    agreed.

    "TPM"
    for me its almost a tie


    "ROTJ"
    its close but i still prefer ROTJ for its good parts, which are all better than anything in AOTC.

    "Spider-Man (good, but not great)"
    i disagree. spider-man has all the strengths in the same places AOTC has weaknesses: engaging, depth of character, discovery, story, acting, directing. (though i do think it has problems)

    "IMHO, AOTC is not as good as:
    2001
    Edward Scissorhands
    ANH
    ESB
    Toy Story 1 & 2
    Saving Private Ryan
    Apocalypse Now"

    i completely agree on all counts here.

    we are not that far off.

  2. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "I didn´t say they should make such a movie , I was answering Dr.Evazahn who would rather see that kind of story for the prequels."

    please re-read my original post... i was offering AN EXAMPLE of a possible alternate. there are many other stories that could have been told. and HADNT been told.
  3. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Sorry to get off you guys little alternate conversation.

    I have seen AOTC 3 times and I will admit I like it better each time I see it but it is by far my least favorite. I grew up on the OT and was priviledged to see them all in their original release dates.

    Even though I am excited about the PT and I did like and own TPM, AOTC and TPM DO NOT hold a candle to the OT.

    I am happy that AOTC brought in so much positive reviews but I had major issues with it.

    Mainly the dialogue and overwhelming use of SPFX. (I could go into explicit detail if you want)

    I hope one day I can feel good about AOTC but now I just feel weird about it.

    BTW, ROTJ rocks and is the best movie to ever wrap up a trilogy or saga.

    Its one of my favs., and better than any one of the PT movies out.
  4. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I also think Reservoir Dogs, True Romance and Pulp Fiction were better than AOTC. Maybe Tarantino should co-write Episode III? Just the dialogue, mind you, since the plot for the prequels so far has been FLIPPING AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  5. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Dang it, DarthHomer, I haven't seen any of those three movies, either!
  6. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I tend to think that Lucas's scriptwriting weaknesses go a little beyond "dialogue". Dialogue pretty much writes itself once you have the character fleshed out. Therefore, I hereby scientifically conclude that Lucas's scriptwriting weakness is with "characterization." Well, that's probably the tip of the iceberg...

    My point is that simply fixing up that faulty line that goes "until this mystery is revealed" into "until this mystery is solved" doesn't necessarily make a good script. My posts are generally filled with correct grammar and concise writing... but it doesn't mean you could shoot a movie from them!
  7. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Binary, so long as you don't have a problem with "cussin'", I think you'd enjoy those films. Not that I think there should be any swearing in Episode III. Damn and blast are the limits, I think. :)
  8. CROM Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    What the hell you are sayin? You wrote this only to have several replys? AOTC is the second best film of the saga. You don't know anything about movies and you said that you grow up seen Star Wars? I don't beleive it.
  9. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Crom,

    I know you weren't talking to me but I did grow up on SW, I do know about movies(I have a degree in film) and AOTC is not better than any of the OT movies and has major problems.

    1. The dialogue between Anakin and Padme is atrocious.

    2. Some of the SPFX are subpar at best which is well beneath ILM. Examples: Dooku on the speeder bike is laughable. The monsters in the arena were no better than a Ray Harryhausen movie(this isn't bad if your living in the 60s)
    Because of the the use of digital video some of the city scape scenes looked no better than what you would see on Babylon 5 or TNG.

    3. Shmi's funeral scene especially Cleigg Lars speech was unnecessary and hurt the emotional impact of the scene as well. We have no development or history on his character or their relationship but yet we are supposed to feel his anguish through some pathetic dialogue?

    4. Whatever happened to overlapping dialogue? Some of the conversations between Obi and Jango were played out no better than a Naked Gun skit.

    5. There is too much reliance of CGI and digital backgrounds. Some of the scenes looked like they were on a stage instead of on a far away planet.

    If it wasn't for Yoda's lightsaber battle and the Tusken Slaughter AOTC would have been a total flop.

    Its the weakest of all five movies.
  10. Darth_Hater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 2
    yeah well...that's just like...your opinion...man.
  11. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    Sounded a little hesitant there, Darth_Hater ;)
  12. Darth_Hater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 2
    I don't agree with any of BobaFrank's statements.

    I don't need a film degree to tell me that the Star Wars movies are sub-par "films" when compared to Citizen Kane, Braveheart, Schindler's List or whatever film you consider to be great.

    That is exactly why I view and/or rate the Star Wars Saga as being in a category of it's own.

    There is nothing that compares to Star Wars yet there are many films far superior to it.

  13. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    1. The dialogue between Anakin and Padme is atrocious.

    Some of it, yes.

    Some of the SPFX are subpar at best which is well beneath ILM. Examples: Dooku on the speeder bike is laughable. The monsters in the arena were no better than a Ray Harryhausen movie(this isn't bad if your living in the 60s)

    The whole arena scene was a homage to Ray Harryhausen films, and I think it worked fine.

    3. Shmi's funeral scene especially Cleigg Lars speech was unnecessary and hurt the emotional impact of the scene as well. We have no development or history on his character or their relationship but yet we are supposed to feel his anguish through some pathetic dialogue?

    You didn't feel sorry for Cliegg after he lost his leg and his wife? Shame on you.

    4. Whatever happened to overlapping dialogue? Some of the conversations between Obi and Jango were played out no better than a Naked Gun skit.

    The Obi-Wan/Jango conversation had some of the best dialogue and acting in the film.

    5. There is too much reliance of CGI and digital backgrounds. Some of the scenes looked like they were on a stage instead of on a far away planet.

    You could say the same about Dagobah or Bespin.
  14. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    The Obi-Wan/Jango conversation had some of the best dialogue and acting in the film.

    He's not talking about the dialogue or acting...but the way that conversation was filmed. Lucas didn't use sound bridges (I think that's what it's called :) )...which in the scene in AOTC would be Obi or Jango saying something off-screen right before the camera focused on them.

    So Bobafrank is also saying AOTC had some flaws in its sound design as well :eek:
  15. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Darth Homer,

    Thanks for pointing out the RH homage. Thinking about it now I kind of like it. The problem I have though is the superior level of effects from TPM and AOTC didn't meld well with this type of effects.

    I felt sorry that Cleigg lost his leg and Shmi but the scene wasn't as strong as it could have been.

    The dialogue problem with Obi and Jango is more of an editing problem. When two characters are talking it is better to have the camera focused on one as the opposite is speaking that way you see the reaction of the character being spoken to. If you just focus on the character speaking it doesn't leave enough of an impact.
  16. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    The dialogue problem with Obi and Jango is more of an editing problem.


    Actually, I was going to point that out instead of the sound design remark. On the plus side, at least Lucas didn't break the 180-degree rule :)
  17. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Darth_Hater,

    I on the other hand can agree with you on 2 things. Schindlers List and Citizen Kane are the 2 greatest movies of all-time.

    ANH and ESB are FAR FROM SUBPAR MOVIES.

    The contributions ANH and ESB have made to the industry are immeasurable. Especially ANH. Ever wonder why ANH is STILL the pinnacle of Sci-fi and fantasy?

    Braveheart is a good movie but no way is it better than a ANH or ESB.

    Ever see AFI's TOP 100 movies of all-time? ANH is number 15. Braveheart isn't even in it.

    Ever see AFI's TOP 100 most suspensful movies list? ANH is number 27. Braveheart isn't in it.

    Every Sci-fi magazine I have ever read that has a best of list always ranks ANH as the best.

  18. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    Ever see AFI's TOP 100 movies of all-time? ANH is number 15. Braveheart isn't even in it.

    Ever see AFI's TOP 100 most suspensful movies list? ANH is number 27. Braveheart isn't in it.


    Poor Mel Gibson. Poor, poor Mel Gibson :_|


    :)
  19. Sifo_Dyas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    This is from waaaaaayy back on the first page, but...

    You misinterpret this scene, like most people do. In the Original version, Greedo was about to kill Han, so shooting first was still 'self defence.' George made the edit to drive the point home.


    EXACTLY.

    The question is...what makes Lucas feel it necessary to dumb the movies down so heavily? Easy. HE IS NOW MAKING THEM EXCLUSIVELY FOR CHILDREN. Look at Jar-Jar. The Ewoks. Han shooting first (because we can't have even the slightest question of moral ambiguity). His decision to make Ani so young in TPM. The sterile, sex-less relationship of Anakin and Padme (and no, I don't mean outright sex, I am referring to the outright lack of ANY sexual tension whatsoever.) And if you need one final capper to all this... Because he had no young characters that the elementary school audience could identify with in AOTC, he had to insert a 9-year-old Boba Fett.

  20. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    And chopping the heads off of 3 Tusken Raiders and killing women and children is good family fun?

    Sorry Sifo, I gotta disagree with you on this one.

  21. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    no. It's not that he's making them for children. It's that adults have become more dumb than ever before.

    I mean, we can't even use our voting machines right if they have big arrows on the ballot slips. And then look at who was appointed by the supreme court?

    Lucas is making his films the way the DMV makes Drivers Ed tests! :p
  22. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    I mean, we can't even use our voting machines right if they have big arrows on the ballot slips. And then look at who we elected president?

    darth-pooh, that kind of stupidity only happens in states bordering the Atlantic Ocean. I'm a Cali person :)

    As for president, I voted for Gore ;)
  23. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    Import,

    What do you think it is? THe water? The Tuna?

    Notice I've changed my message so that it now says:
    And then look at who was appointed by the supreme court.
    Gore is actually our president by majority vote, but he won't take office for another two years.

    Anyway, don't go off on California being the best place on earth like my girlfriend. I grew up in LA before I moved out East and there is nothing back West that I miss except the NATURE!

    At least in the east, when people make plans with you, they don't double plan! And they read books. And they don't drive everywhere! (Except NJ)
    :p
  24. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    Well, BobaFreak, but those are your own personal opinions.

    I too have a degree in film and I thought AOTC was delightful, but like all the SW films, has its flaws. I can admit that. I loved AOTC. My main problem with it were the scenes that were cut. Very great scenes. The rest, I rub of my shoulder because I judge the SW films in a category of its own.

    But I do not consider to be any of the SW movies subpar. All of them are amazing in its own way. I do have my favorites. ANH is my favorite, ESB is my least favorite. But I enjoy them all. But none of them are subpar to me. They capture what it sets out to do, which is to take us to new worlds, introduce us to strange creatures. It is high adventure sprinkled with mythology.

    But that is my opinion. Of course, you don't have to agree.

    ANH is my favorite of the series. But I remember going to see the SE of ANH with some collegues, and we were cringing at so many of those damn lines.

    Anyway, the AFI list? Ok...

    Sorry, but because a film is not on the AFI list, means jack.

    So Braveheart is not on it. But is a damn good film that captured the feel os those classic epics from the 50's and early 60's.

    If you abide by the AFI list, then I don't know what to say. Because by no means is iteven the final say. I might be wrong, but youy just came off that way. I do hope you don't go by this list as definite, because you would be one of the few people I know who are studied or work in film who take this list as something holy.

    I agree on many of the films on that list, I disagree with many on it.

    All subjective, man. If it wasn't, all the top 100 lists would be the same as that of the AFI.

    Everybody has opinions. Film, like all the arts, is a purely subjective field.

    What one admires, another may not.

    But you come as if what you say is fact. Just remember, everything is subjective.

    I mean, example, while Citizen Kane is amazing on a technical level, I do think story wise it is overrated, Very overrated and it has some glaring weak points.

    Now, if you want my own OPINION, Third Man and Touch of Evil are superior films and are his best work. But that is my opinion.

    The world revolves around opinions and they don't really mean much anyway. How many of Kubrick's films have gotten slammed by critics upon release and yet as years pass tunes change. 2001 got a hearty beating. Yet now it is considered a classic. But hey, I am with the initial critics on that one. While 2001 is a technical marvel and it still holds up well today, I thought and still think that the film is overrated and deeply flawed. That it is pretencious.

    But hey, that's my own opinion.



  25. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Son_of_the_tear,

    Its BobaFrank.

    I also agree none of the SW movies are Subpar but IMO AOTC is the weakest.

    Braveheart is one of my favorite movies of all-time but it doesn't hold a candle to ESB or ANH.

    I consider AFI a reliable source for determining whats the best of cinema due to the list is made up on the opinions of industry professionals who know a heck of a lot more about movies than us.

    It doesn't mean our opinions don't count though.

    Citizen Kane is my least fav of OW(Touch of Evil is his best)

    Shindler's List is IMO the greatest movie ever made.
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