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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Did I somehow see the wrong version of AOTC

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by kenoidewi, May 16, 2002.

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  1. DarthMalifluous

    DarthMalifluous Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 11, 2002
    Newbies we may be, but our opinion is still well favored. The reason I'm a newbie is simply because I like going into a movie "unspoiled", discuss it for it's brief moment in time and then move on. Within a week or two you won't hear from me, and I'm sure that can be said from most of us "newbies". I just don't have the time. I can give my dramatic dissertation, accept critisism, respond to polite and well thought out comments, and then move on.

    Being a newbie, I am not dissing the opinions of those who like or loved the movie. I am trying to understand them. I'm sure that there are a few people involved in the industry here who are as miffed as I am. Not just about the PT set of films, but films in general. The craft has dwindled to such an extent over the last bunch of years that it's becoming disconcerting. It seems that the movie going audience of today is simply settling when in fact they should be demanding perfection. Movies are an extremely expensive proposition. But when there is a George Lucas who has unboundless resources at his fingertips, why should he or we as the audience settle for anything less than perfection? It is attainable! And I think that George knows this. He's got one of, if not the hottest, movie properties in movie history, so why does he need to settle, and why should he expect us to?

    There is a good movie within AotC, but it is so grossly cluttered and covered by the superficial (which I don't mind in the proper context... in fact superficial can lend itself to an audience endearment) noise of the surrounding elements that it gets lost.
     
  2. wedge3210

    wedge3210 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 1999
    ...our opinion is still well favored.

    You're way in the minority around here. Have you read other people's comments on the movie or are you only interested in similar ideas/posters to yourself?

    Just have a look at the poll in census.
     
  3. Darth Foon

    Darth Foon Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 29, 1999
    "You're way in the minority around here."

    Your point?
     
  4. wedge3210

    wedge3210 Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 7, 1999
    Ummm... Do you really need me to expand on that?
     
  5. 1AaronBrown

    1AaronBrown Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 11, 2002
    I feel that the acting is cheesy, but lets face it, ITS STAR WARS people, perhaps everyone should go watch the OT again, Star Wars acting has always been pretty bad. I felt this movie was great, much better then TPM, but not because it had better acting, i feel it was a lot more dramatic. I also feel the NT has a big disadvantage over the OT, everyone knows anakin and obi and yoda have no chance of dying, it sort of takes away from the drama.
     
  6. DarthMalifluous

    DarthMalifluous Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 11, 2002
    Wedge,

    when I say well favored, the assumption is that it's a far broader base than simply theforce.net's messageboard.
     
  7. Darth Foon

    Darth Foon Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 29, 1999
    Well what did that comment have to do with the rest of your post? Are you implying that because if more people like the movie here then those who had problems with it shouldn't express their opinions?
     
  8. wedge3210

    wedge3210 Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 7, 1999
    Well judging it on the amount of positive reviews over negative ones, you're still going to be in the minority.

    No I didn't Foon. And if you need me to hold your hand through my posts, maybe you shouldn't read them.
     
  9. Darth Foon

    Darth Foon Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 1999
    It's just a movie Wedge...just remember that.
     
  10. wedge3210

    wedge3210 Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 7, 1999
    *Claps*

    Well done... no really.
     
  11. DarthMalifluous

    DarthMalifluous Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 11, 2002
    Ladies, ladies,

    this is after all a friendly discussion amongst intelligent persons. Lets get back to the subject at hand.

    I am trying to understand why so many considered this movie to be "a resounding 10"? I'm truely curious. I cannot seem to see the forest through the trees.

    I'm sure that many of the positive reviews come from people who are "film afficionados", who know and understand the tempo that a film can generate, who can dissect and enjoy a film at the same time. I am wondering why George Lucas, a professed wunderkind of his generation would blatently go against his own past history of doing some great, powerful filmaking. He's got an incredible universe in which he can play and yet it just seems to me that he is building mole-hills instead of worldclass sandcastles.
     
  12. Darth Foon

    Darth Foon Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 29, 1999
    Well it appears that it bothers you that someone happens not to agree with you on your opinions on a movie. That is somewhat disturbing.
     
  13. wedge3210

    wedge3210 Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 7, 1999
    Of course this is a friendly discussion. I'm not worked up at all.

    I don't think it's a resounding ten in terms of production/acting/editing etc. But then again, I don't consider any of the 5 films deserve a 10 in that regaurd. All of them have quibbles that iron out over time and people get over them.

    My "positiveness" comes from the purely enjoyable aspect of story and development and the questions posed for the next one. It's all a rich tapestry... and all that crap.

    Foon, just drop it. You're the one that made the big deal out of my "point".
     
  14. Guybrush

    Guybrush Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Yea!!! I'm on the other side now!! I love this film. I can say I love it!! I was a TPM hater(except Tatooine) and I didn't like being in that position.

    I went with my friends and we all loved it. Had a blast.
     
  15. Darth Foon

    Darth Foon Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 29, 1999
    And you are the one who talked to me like a child.

    Now it's dropped.
     
  16. BitterPower

    BitterPower Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 5, 2002
    My friends (about 6) and I had a semi-private viewing today. The whole theatre was filled with "Oooohhhh's" and "Aaaahhh's" throughout the final battle. Some of them had managed to stay spoiler free, and were surprised when Yoda came out to take on Dooku.
    We all went "Holy ****!" when he slipped into his battle stance. We were all cheering and shouting during the arena battle with Jedi dropping left and right.
    THIS MOVIE ROCKED!
     
  17. wedge3210

    wedge3210 Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 7, 1999
    I did? Well you misread me.
     
  18. DarthMalifluous

    DarthMalifluous Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 11, 2002
    This is obviously a case of "agreeing to disagree". Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy the film. I found it entertaining at times. The last 30+ minutes alone were worth the 10+$ that a ticket costs. It has true spectacle written all over it. But is that enough? It's simply a matter of George taking some responsiblity. How is it that he is able to tell a powerful, dynamic story 20+ years ago and yet, within the same awe inspiring universe, manage to create some mediocre origin-story? Sure this film has thrills (I was not once frightened... unlike that scene in which Luke is slowely moving down the corridors of CloudCity, trying to find Vader and then "VROOM"). Lucas went balls-to-the-wall as far as special FX, but that does not excuse his sincere lack of story and cohesion within this particular episode. He has said on numerous times that he would not violate "cannon"; he would not do so because it is something that has always bothered him within the context of other sequels, and yet we see him do so time and time again within this film.

    I've said enough.
     
  19. captbruce

    captbruce Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 16, 2002
    I was one of the 10 friends that went with kenoidewi last night and the reason he created this thread and we both logged on is that we had the same misgivings about the movie, and every site we went to, we didn't see anyone who thought the same and wondered were we missing something. Glad to see we weren't the only ones, and some of the positive support for the film has made me rethink some things. But like all opinions, the some of the things everyone's disliking/liking are the same, some different. That's the beauty of freedom. People like Propp, etc, get off your high horse. Even the filmmakers would be more gracious in taking criticism than you seem to be.

    I'll put my two cents in and say my disappointment can be summed up in one sentence: The movie didn't feel like Mr. Lucas had any fun in making it.

    Even in TPM, despite the things I didn't like about it, it seemed like he was having fun, taking us on a ride in the Star Wars universe again. He wanted to be there. AOTC didn't have the feeling. It felt forced, unattached, and done just because it "had to be made."

    My faults with the movie boil down to blaming George Lucas the filmmaker. The dialogue was weak. Yes, many have said the dialogue was in the previous films were, too, but in this one, either acting didn't transcend it or it was just SUPREMELY bad. It makes me wonder just how much of an influence Lawrence Kasdan was in the cowriting of the original trilogy. Evidently Mr. Hale couldn't help out enough to make it good. Yes, there were SOME good lines ("Anakin, you'll be the death of me") but it sounded like Lucas was trying to make the dialogue grand and important, and it either didn't work or he couldn't direct his actors to get the words out well.

    Pacing and structuring, as others have pointed out---for all the bad things in TPM, I at least felt the movie moved along well and it was paced well. It told a story. In AOTC, I feel like he didn't focus on some things long enough, some things were too short...it just felt off.

    I said it for TPM and I'll say it again: Mr. Lucas should not be directing any of them. He's just not a good director. I think Graffitti and ANH showed he had some promise as one, but it's gone now. He is a brilliant idea man and storyteller and I sort of feel if he left the directing to someone else, he could concentrate solely on the story and we wouldn't be having these conversations. The acting wasn't that bad and I feel like the actors suffered from bad dialogue and poor direction because Ewan McGregor was great (more and more like Sir Alec Guiness each time we see him), I think Natalie Portman is good, but did better in TPM (even though she says she feels she did better in this one), and Hayden Christiansen was an excellent choice for Anakin. I think he shouldn't have been directed to act younger at all (Portman says this in her Premiere magazine interview) and it sort of held him back in my opinion. Everyone else from Sam Jackson to Christopher Lee, they did the best with what they were given.

    And Yoda...ah, Frank Oz, we hardly knew ya! I know it's a pain to sit under planks and sweat your ass off while animating a rubber puppet, but kenoidewi and I agree, let's get back to puppets and models. Yoda was all CG in this movie, when there were instances I felt he didn't have to be. Like the old adage goes, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Yes, technology is amazing now, but it's the simple stuff that made Star Wars star wars. I did think the sword fight was amazing though and anyone else who went to Celebration 2, don't you wish you could've taped that promo they showed on the first day?!

    Make no mistake, I'll see this movie a gazillion more times, and maybe my opinion will change about some stuff, but I still believe this movie was missing something. Visually the movie was beautiful, beyond my wildest imaginations. But with the story, the acting, and the direction, I wasn't feeling it. And I also brought up the point that if they're trying to achieve the chemistr
     
  20. -_-_-_-_-_-

    -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Just goes to show once again, you can't satisfy everyone.


    AOTC was an amazing piece of storytelling through film.
     
  21. DARTH_HENDRIX

    DARTH_HENDRIX Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 12, 2001
    the movie was great....look you don't have to be a movie insider, or have any clue how to make a movie. I don't understand anything about pacing or how to create tension or tell a story. I just know whwn I see something I like....and I really liked attack of the clones....The best or second best of the entire series..imho
     
  22. Ari-an

    Ari-an Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    I LOVED AOTC
    and i too will have to digest it after watching it a lot more times.
    Jerjerrod said it well
    along with JediMaster22 quoted someone else as saying
    "No Star Wars movie can or will live up to the expectations put on them because they're infinitely high. People expect to go into the theater at 25-35 years old and feel as awed and fresh about it as they did when they were 6. It's not going to happen no matter how much people want it to."

    those who are more critical of it instead of enjoying it, are way too wrapped up in being critical of things. why cant people just enjoy things the way they are?
    in my opinion, you're not a true star wars fan unless you enjoy all of them passionately like some few do, and accept the fact that nobody and nothing is perfect.

    the world would be a better place if we focused on the good as much as we did on the bad.
    one message to all the bashers:
    Give it up, if you dont like it, then stop putting yourself through all that torture of reliving it.

    And to true star wars fans:
    You know you love them all, and respect to all of you because you can enjoy the simple things in life.
     
  23. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    Captbruce wrote: 'My disappointment can be summed up in one sentence: The movie didn't feel like Mr. Lucas had any fun in making it.

    'Even in TPM, despite the things I didn't like about it, it seemed like he was having fun...AOTC didn't have the feeling. It felt forced, unattached, and done just because it "had to be made."'


    Exactly.
     
  24. Ari-an

    Ari-an Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    one more thing, the young at heart enjoy the films, as just that entertaining films, and those who are of critical older view, have been through life, sorry to say it sucks.
    it all has to do with the psychology of people and who they are, so dont blame your inate tendancies on some movie.
    -im out
     
  25. DarthRudy

    DarthRudy Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 12, 2002
    Personally i have to rank Attack of the Clones as my favorite of the series. I'm 20 years old so i was only a baby when Return of the Jedi came out so TPM was my first time seeing a Star Wars movie on the big screen so that may be why i judged the films as i did.

    First of all the Acting...I thought i would hate Anakin after seeing the trailers but i found that every scene in the trailer worked on the screen, i thought his constant bickering with Obi-wan and his arrogance came out perfectly. And the scene after he's killed the tusken raiders, i thought it was an incredibly moving sequence. Happy that they didn't have Padme say anything when he started to cry, as i feel it would've detracted from the scene.
    Ewan Mcgregor just felt great in his role, as did Jango and Count Dooku. Even Jar Jar wasn't as annoying as in TPM. C-3p0 i felt was the perfect type of comic relief possible. I couldn't stop laughing at everything he did. And CG yoda, i loved him i thought he was perfect, just the facial experessions, his interaction with the other characters and the clones. I thought it was the best incarnation of Yoda yet. The only one who left me wanting was Natalie Portman. I felt that she didn't seem interested in the role at all. Still there were two scenes that i felt she was astonishing in. When her decoy is killed at the very start of the film, her expression was incredible, she didn't say much but just her mannerisms were great. The second scene comes when She's being carted into the Arena and confesses her love to Anakin, i swear her delivery was incredible, impressive.

    Scenes:
    I thought the final battle was just incredible it seemed like a real war, with soldiers moving into the fray. Jedi knights in the middle of a massive battle, air and land. It was something that i felt was lacking from the original trilogy. The skirmeshes were on a low scale. In ESB the battle of Hoth was impressive but the Rebels stayed in their trench and just retreated. In ROTJ the battle was again, not on a large scale. It was just a perfect military scenario.
    Shimi's death, i felt the way her head dropped at the end wasn't good but i thought the way she spoke and Anakin's reactions were great.
    The chase through corruscant, and Dooku's arrival on Corruscant i think that for the first time i was able to get a feel of the world and what it's people look like and do, not just looking at the politicians and Jedi knights.
    I honestly have no real quips about the film. The only thing i disliked was that the final confrontation with Dooku was far too short in my opinion. Yoda though more than made up for that. I also liked the touch of having only a single seat left in the council at the end.
    I thought the film was incredibly well paced, unlike TPM and ANH were the first hour and a half had me looking at my watch. This film kept me enthralled throughout. The Action as i've said with the exception of Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-wan were powerful, i thought the lovestory worked and it just at least in my humble opinion is the best entry in the series thus far.
     
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