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Lit Did Jacen Change the Future?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth Droid, Jul 4, 2013.

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  1. Darth Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2013
    star 1
    The question raised at the end of Apocalypse is a complicated one. It was eventually revealed that all of Jacen Solo's actions in LOTF were done to change a certain future he saw. Was this future Legacy? Or was Legacy the future he created? (Darth Krayt hinted that the future was only delayed by Jacen) Perhaps this whole "changing the future" thing is an opening for Episode VII to use? Although if I were a betting man I would say Denning himself probably has no idea what the answers to these questions are, that's no reason not to speculate!
    Last edited by Darth Droid, Jul 4, 2013
  2. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I'm hoping Legacy is the future Jacen saw because otherwise Legacy would restrict the novels taking place before it.
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  3. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    Jacen did change the future. But so did Disney :p
  4. Trisdin Gheer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2013
    star 2
    There Is No Chance That The Events Of Episode VII Will In Any Way Be Linked To FOTJ
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  5. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Has anybody ever not changed the future? Changing the future is easy; we all do it each day. It's changing the past that we worry about.
  6. A Tool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 1
    That sounds hella deep....
    Especially with your avatar. :p
    Last edited by A Tool, Jul 4, 2013
  7. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    just ask Historians... changing the past is as easy as changing the future ;) you just have to silence or ridicule those who remember it different ;)
    Starkeiller, Darth_Foo and Lady_Misty like this.
  8. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    Now that everything's basically retcon'd to be less about stopping the Dark Man and more about preventing Allana from serving at his side? Sure. But if the original goal of the whole Throne of Balance thing was about Krayt or someone else...then he really didn't.
  9. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    well it was a retcon itself that the Dark Man is/was Krayt. originally it could have been anything from dark Ben, dark Luke, or Jacen himself dark even. making it Krayt does make sense too but is less fun than any of the other options. so basically Jacen could have switched the original Dark Man for a later/delayed one being Krayt. Who the original was.. probably Krayt too, but could be all others too. So he did change it indeed, even if only delayed or a new person became the Dark Man.
  10. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    Denning has Krayt offer the notion that the future's only been delayed. But, really, it's only delayed because Krayt decided to show himself. With TOR, we at least get some tomfoolery with Revan exerting mental influence on the Emperor. With FOTJ, it's because Krayt just kind of shows up to fight Abeloth....because...uh...well, I'm sure he had a reason to risk his entire Order's existence. Probably.

    I mean, you can argue that Jacen's sort of responsible for things because his wanting to seize Centerpoint from Corellians, which led to its destruction, leading to Abeloth. But that's a bit tenuous. I only mention all this because Denning tries really hard to tie what he can together by the end of FOTJ. Tries being the key word. Because it really hinges on Krayt deciding to show up and fight, which would make sense if Abeloth had been treated differently as a villain.
  11. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Pfft. Every moment in the present is the past to a future observer.

    Eternalism or death!
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  12. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    Sad Fringe is over? Watch Adjustment Bureau instead ;) great movie. There are Observers everywhere [face_whistling]
  13. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Future 1 - the Future that was saw by Jacen

    Darth Krayt rules the galaxy with Allana by his side as an acolytes

    Future 2

    Allana is on the throne, surrounded by Jedi and friends; Darth Krayt emerges in 128 ABY

    The assumption is that Krayt planned to emerge earlier. Instead, Jacen's actions makes such a catastrophe of it all that it puts back Darth Krayt's plans. Jacen implied, rather pettily, that it was Luke on the throne in Abyss. Essentially, Jacen takes on the Dark Man mantle, making himself into the Dark Man, and then passes the future to Allana rather than allow her to die.

    In Future 1, Abeloth did not escape, Ship did not find the Lost Tribe, and Daala didn't emerge from hiding. Caedus' actions may very well have undone Darth Krayt's first plan, but not stopped him entirely, and, fundamentally, did more harm than good. Thus, the Tragedy of Darth Caedus, running from DNT through to FotJ, with maybe Crucible as the book to end it all, dependent on Sword of the Jedi.
    Jedi_Glover likes this.
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Rubbish! Legacy took extensive steps to avoid doing that to a very great degree and indeed got blasted for having no character descendants. Even now, at 44-45 years after Yavin, there's at least over 7 decades worth of space. Only a moron could fail to use that well.
  15. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    But how is Abeloth a threat when we all know that Krayt ends up taking over the galaxy?
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    From what everyone's posted about FOTJ, she isn't much of one!

    How is what FOTJ does the fault of Legacy? Legacy was done 2006-2010, FOTJ started 2010.

    But you may as well ask why the Separatists in Clone Wars are a threat on the basis the Empire take over anyway.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Jul 4, 2013
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  17. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    speaking of morons... :rolleyes: *looks at FOTJ*
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  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Yeah, that's kind of the point Ceiran....

    After Apocalypse, I was amazed we got the DOTJ novel and that it meshes well with the comics, as the former could have easily blasted a big hole in such company collaborations.
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  19. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Except the PT was advertised as just that: prequels. FATE of the Jedi sounds like a grand finale.
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    But so what? Why should I believe anything about them as the Empire takes over anyway? Why should I let myself get involved in the story at all when it's basically pointless?

    As to FOTJ, don't confuse a story title or how it's marketed with the actual quality, the 3 things are very different.

    A grand finale? [face_laugh][face_rofl][face_laugh] Apocalypse? With its gazillion hanging plot threads to be covered in future series that you suckers will keep on buying right up until the point Disney death-stars the EU as it stands? THAT grand finale?
  21. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    So true. I'm really bashing the marketing more than anything else.
  22. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Did Jacen change the future? Well yes. We went from a future where Legacy was the destined endpoint and quality would likely continue to go downhill in stories, to a new one where the future is up in the air thanks to Disney. So yes, the future was changed.
  23. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    You're giving Jacen credit for a business decision by Lucas?
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  24. Darth Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2013
    star 1
    This might be a different topic all together, but something else that always bugged me was why the series was called Fate of the Jedi anyways. At least the Legacy of the Force title made some bit of sense. Fate of the Jedi makes no sense at all. The best I can guess was it was the Fate of Jacen? Like Fate of the Jedi as in Fate of Jacen? I don't know.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  25. JStepp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2011
    star 2
    According too Yoda and the Jedi we all change the future, "Always in motion, the future is, so yes. Did he change it in a good way? Who knows, but I don't think so. The galaxy would have been a lot better off with the TUF Jacen, leading the Jedi.
    Imagine Jedi Master Jacen Solo and Grandmaster Luke Skywalker beating the beep out of Abeloth or Krayt.
    Gamiel and Katana_Sundancer like this.
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