Did Lucas betray Padme?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Jumpman, Nov 14, 2005.

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  1. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    I'm glad to be getting this feedback because again, I've in a constant battle with someone who truly felt that Lucas destroyed Padme by making her a stay home soon to be mother in the film.

    In their words, Lucas took Padme from a BLUE STATE AMERICA character to a RED STATE AMERICA character. That literally flipped me out but I had to think about and I wanted to know what others thought about how Lucas did with the character in this episode.
  2. Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 3
    Padme could have never held a single weapon in the entire PT and STILL would have been one of it's stronger characters. The only bad job Lucas did is like post above mentions,cutting key scenes of her's. She was always accused of being cold and having a matter-of-fact way about her, yet when opprotunities to show her laid back like the dinner with her family the cut it. I understand this is the story of Anakin. That is what Lucas has said but Padme's story and character help lay out the background of the OT saga. Giving a better understanding of what is going on socially.


    Also lets be fair, while I have stated earlier it is my least favorite SW thing ever (her death scene and reason)there are women who give children up for adoption for the babies well being many times and are applauded for being unselfish and strong to make the choice to have a fuller life for the children.
  3. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    There were a number of scenes within Episodes II and III that shows Padme's warmth as a person. The side away from politics. Lucas didn't cut all of it out.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Padme is selfish. The novelization for AOTC demonstrates this perfectly. Sola wants to know when Padme will start thinking about herself and not others. This is in the prologue before going to Courscant at the start of the film. Padme does think about it a little, but not so much as she does once she's with Anakin. She starts to become selfish, slowly and in degrees. It's not as bad as Anakin, but it comes none-the-less. She wants to have her family, but she also wants to have her job. She's freaking out because she's knocked up. She's concerned with keeping Anakin safe, rather than doing the right thing and telling Obi-wan where he went. She actively puts herself in danger when she leaves Courscant. She is a bit fearful of change regarding her relationship with Anakin.

    The tragedy is that both Anakin and Padme are selfish, only one is more so than the other. She cannot adapt to the new situation and as Lucas says, if you do not adapt, you will die. It's a law of nature.
  5. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Is everything always so black and white? That's the problem with this country. It's "either/or" and no one ever wishes to accept another viewpoint. Free speech is supposed to facilitate open debate and exchanges in ideas but often is used for each side to simply bash each other.

    Padmé was a liberal at heart in TPM and that carried through to AOTC and ROTS. Her political views never changed. What happened was she started compromising those views in favor of a relationship with Anakin. It was subtle at first, but if she wasn't pregnant and in hiding, if she was as active in the Senate as she should have been during the Clone Wars, perhaps the opposition against Palpatine would have begun sooner or gained more momentum. By the time she woke up to the fact that something was seriously wrong, it was too late. And she didn't see it because while she still held the same political beliefs, it was no longer her top priority. Family started to take precendence and she paid dearly for it.

    So really, I guess you could say Lucas punished Padmé for choosing family over career, definitely not a Red State POV. :p

  6. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    Great post sinister. I still feel that she earned the right to be selfish.

    Thank you, Rogue. Brilliant post.
  7. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    ...but it got me a very good argument to prove me wrong, so... Mission Accomplished! I was worried that my generalization was correct and NOT a generalization. So thanks for showing me otherwise.

    Now that THAT's cleared up, I shall move on...

    P.S. Here's another broad generalization: almost every poster I have read has been guilty of generalizations as well... so, HA!
  8. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Probably true, but I at least try to catch myself when I use them and always take my lashings with a wet noodles when someone catches me. ;)

    Now on with the regularly scheduled program, already in progress . . . :)
  9. YYZ-2112 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2004
    star 4
    Yea I got the sense that she could feel his suffering while he was being operated on. I don't know how that ties in or if it does or it's true but it's what seemed to be happening at the time.
  10. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Yes, the scene's of Anakin and Padme's "death" are intercut in such a way that you get the feeling they are both feeling and sharing the same experiances. When Anakin "dies" and becomes Darth Vader, so Padme's death is unavoidable. I believe this symbiotic relationship was first set up in the "Ruminations" scene and was further enforced by Padme breaking down as Anakin kills the Younglings - Even though she's deny's that he could do such a thing, deep down she can feel what Anakin is doing.
  11. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    See, that's the fricking tricky issue with thses two. The way Lucas cuts it, it seems that there is a serious strong connection between them. Granted, that could just be filmmaking at its best and Lucas isn't pointing to anything. Then again, this is Lucas. At times, he might not be saying anything with his images. Other times, it's quite deliberate. With Anakin and Padme, it's a toss up.

    We have the Rumination Scene. On the surface, the two just happen to go to the window to gaze out at Coruscant at the exact same time. Yet, look at the acting in the scene by both Natalie and Hayden. There has to be more.

    And then we get to the Birth of the Twins/The Birth of Vader/The Death of Padme. Look at how Lucas intercuts those two scenes. Perfect execution. But, is there more there? Is Padme connected to Anakin through the Force? Because of the children, does she have that ability? I know in the Making Of Book, Lucas had that idea in mind but again, it's not stated overtly in the film. But man, Lucas has two very unique sequences where that could be the case for sure.
  12. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I find it weird that the will of the Force would cause Padmé to die, but I'd accept that as an explanation over her simply losing the will to live.
  13. Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 3

    I agree Padme and Anakin were both immature in many choices they made but at least Padme's character fails in trying to but family over her cause. Still she is thinking of helping others and not herself as often like Anakin. She cares enough about him to fly alone to talk to him knowing he has most likely turned to the darkside and even killed children. On Mustafar her cause becomes less lets be together, and more about Anakin going down a path she can't follow. Before someone points I know she says lets go away on Naboo and have are child there. I feel she wants to do this not just to be together but to bring him back to normalcy and give him a chance to be away and rethink certain things. Yet when it all comes down to it and she has to make a choice between Anakin and her beliefs her beliefs win out. You cannot say the same for Anakin.
  14. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    Very true. But, in Anakin's small defense, the Dark Side had taken him.
  15. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    That's a POV Sinister.

    But in the final analysis she shows great compassion by letting go.

    Padmé: I don?t know you anymore ? Anakin your breaking my heart.
    Your going down a path I can?t follow.


    Padmé understands that in order to save the lives of her children.
    Perhaps to save Anakin, she must let go.

    Padmé: I don?t believe what I?m hearing?
    Obi Wan was right. You?ve changed.


    Padmé knows that he has turned to the Dark Side.
    She understands the children must be protected from him.

    He would search for her and the children across the Galaxy.

    This is also why Yoda ensures she looks pregnant in her casket.


    At the end of the PT, Padmé sacrifices herself to save Luke and Leia from the Sith.
    At the end of the OT, Anakin sacrifices himself to save Luke and Leia from the Sith.



  16. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    Oooh... Good point. Never thought of that!

    EDIT: I'm NOT being sarcastic! [face_worried]
  17. Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 3
    Like I was saying earlier. Women who give up there children for adoption for the better of the children is VERY brave, selfless and strong. I'm not saying this is exactly what Padme was doing but trying to keep perspective for those saying it is a selfish act to leave your children. They mave have had to anyway and that would have been something else she would have had to live with.

    By the way WONDERFUL parallel about Padme and Luke ending the PT and OT.
  18. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, but Padmé wasn't exactly destitute or without connections. She easily could have gone into hiding with the children. The children already lost their father. Why would she think losing their mother too would be a good thing? If Obi-Wan and Yoda can manage to hide and live for the next two decades, I don't see why Padmé wouldn't be able to.

  19. Jedi_Momma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2005
    star 2
    Do you mean that Padme died on purpose?? I didn't get that at all. If she wanted to save the kids couldn't have put off dying until after they were ready to be born?

    She's lucky those medical droids were there. They did have to "operate to save the babies."
  20. sabarte Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    The sad thing about Padme in ROTS is a problem with many female characters in media and literature. They're so busy "being female" having babies and all, that they seem to have forgotten how to be human.

    Lucas is nearly as bad as Tolkien as far as writing out mothers to provide trauma goes.
  21. loebs Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2005
    star 1
    well i think he tryed but Portman is just a crappy actress ha
  22. JediLaura01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 3
    I think he balanced her character the way she was supposed to be balanced. In TPM Padme' was all political, a strong leader, etc. In AOTC she was the same with being a Senater, but we saw her softer side when she allowed herself to be a "woman" and fall in love. In ROTS she was both mixed together. She may have had "lovey dovey" scenes with Anakin, but she also expressed her opinions to him regarding the war, Palpatine, etc, and wasn't afraid to do so. I think she showed that women can be in love, but still be themselves and have their own opinions and ideals.
  23. Jedi_Momma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2005
    star 2
    Or Disney! Man, did you ever wonder what old Walt woulda' done for drama if he didn't have Moms to kill off or "lose". (Bambi, Dumbo, Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, etc, etc.)
  24. LeeKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 6
    Did Lucas betray Padme?

    Yeah. he did.

    In TPM, she was a brave warrior queen.

    In AotC, she was a senator who was quite at ease with "aggressive negotiations"

    In RotS, she is---a beaten housewife that claims her husband is still good.
    Reminds me of a trailer park COPS--woman beaten to a pulp claiming "Naw, Clem didn't mean nothin by it."
  25. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4

    Lucas expresses clearly what Padmé's POV is concerning her child(ren) in this scene:

    Anakin: It was only a dream.

    Padmé gives him a long, worried look. Anakin takes a deep breath.

    Anakin: (continuing) You die in childbirth . . .

    Padmé: And the baby?

    This scene shows clearly what Padmé's priorities concerning her child(ren).
    She's not concerned with her own fate.
    She is concerned with the fate of her unborn child. />/>
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