Did Lucas betray Padme?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Jumpman, Nov 14, 2005.

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  1. Xephalon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Good Search, I was curious on this one person in the movie, the person in my opinion who wasn't that known in the Star Wars Galaxy, Finis Valorum, the supreme chancellor before Palpatine, anyways here it goes, Finis Valorum in latin means "end of the valorious ones"
  2. Handmaiden_Azul Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2005
    star 4
  3. Darth_Kermit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2003
    star 3
    What happened to the stone faced 14 year old in TPM. She stood up to anyone. What? She grows up and looses the will to live even though she has two children to take care off all for love?

    I don't think Lucas followed through with Padme. That "lost the will to live thing" really trashes her character.
  4. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    Major let down of EPI III. Padme was pushed to the side. Her brief screen time was wasted with combing her hair and weak dialogue. As for the Ive lost the will to live rubbish. What a joke. What an embarassment.:mad:
  5. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    I'll tell you what happened to Padme....she got pregnant and her husband turning evil is what happened. Even if she hadn't died, how can she possibly protect her children from 2 Sith Lords that are hunting them? Even when she was a stone faced 14 year old who stood up to anyone in TPM, she was spooked to see Darth Maul standing before her and her troops because she knew it would be suicide to attack him after she saw him attack Qui-Gon on Tatooine.

    The shock of her own husband choking her is what finished her off.
  6. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    Oh pleas that's lame and you know it. THe woman just gives up without a fight because her husband is an bastard! She was completely pathetic in ROTS and Lucas needed her to die so he pulled a bogus death out of his butt. THere are a dozen better ways for that girl to have died besides....well that absolutely lack of reason in the movie. She could have suffered worse injuries from Anakin, could have died of natural childbirth because she wasn't on Coruscant, she could have had the decision to save her self or have a life threatening surgery to save her children but it would kill her. There are so many better ways for this to have been dealt with than she being a pathetic, selfish woman who abandons her children because her husband force chokes her. This woman is not the mother of Princess Leia who fights for every moment; even short and soft Luke has more fight than Padme. I dont think Lucas betrayed her I think he just got lazy.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Lucas wanted to highlight the tragic nature of their relationship's end. That she loved Anakin so much, that when he broke her heart, she simply gave up the will to live. It's tragic. Poetic. Being with Anakin changed her. Rather than just having her die of injuries, Lucas wanted their relationship to end as it began. With a Shakespearian (sp) type of feel to it.
  8. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    So in conclusion, he made Padme put a man before her children? Padme's death is not Shakesperean, Shakespeare characters deaths have actual meaning and an actual cause. A tragedy is not just somebody dying, it is the way of the death, the reason of the death, and the way the death affects everybody else. When Romeo and Juliet, the greatest Shakespeare tragedy for many people, died they didnt just keel over for no reason when they discovered each other dead. Yes their suicides could be viewed as selfish but atleast there was a reason for them dying. Padme's death was not tragic it was stupid, it would have been just as tragic if she had died of actual reasons instead of just keeling over for no reason. It would have been just as tragic if she had lived for 2 years, hidden on Alderran, a broken woman, and then died of a broken heart(no one dies of a broken heart in 5minutes). It would have been more realistic than what happened to her. It is obvious by the way the death was dealt with, Anakin chokes her and Palpatine tells him he killed Padme, that GL wanted Anakin to be the direct cause of her death. He just copped out at the end and poured an overload of water into his Coke. The excuse that Lucas didnt want Anakin to kill Padme because it would have been far to "evil" is a weak excuse because Anakin did kill her because he caused her to loose the will to live.
    No one expects Padme to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or as active as she was in AOTC at 7months pregnant, but we do expect her to die of an actual cause and not just give up.
  9. Darth_Kermit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2003
    star 3
    The only way I can understand it the way that it is, is that she knew that loving Anakin was wrong in AOTC, but by giving in to it, she undermined herself. She cut herself off at the knees. Her destruction took place right there before the arena when she decided to let herself be a teenager for the first time in her life, let herself be needy.

    But then again, I shouldn't have to make a stretch like that unless Lucas really does it clearly and on purpose.
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Lucas has said that not only is Star Wars about the son redeeming the father, but is about the daughter redeeming the mother. It's fathers, sons, mothers & daughters. Family. Padme's death serves as the death of hope and liberty. She was one of the bright spots and now she is lost. Tragedy and darkness engulf the galaxy. Matters are worse.


    Padme goes from being totally unselfish to totally selfish. She's too attached to Anakin, just as he was to her. They both die, only one is literal and one is a metaphysical/pyschological death. Padme cannot adapt to the idea of life without her husband. And as Lucas said in 1999, if you cannot adapt, you die.
  11. Darth_Kermit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2003
    star 3
    I don't know about totally selfish, she's still a pretty virtuous politician, but I know what you mean in her personal life.

    I like what you are saying Sinister, it gels well with my last post -But I really wish that Lucas would have supported this motif better in the movie if that is actually what he was getting at. Maybe a really needy/clingy scene with Padme, besides the "hold me" scene.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yes, in her personal life, she's more selfish than her public one. But you must also consider that she has a lot of other things on her mind. Her husband has killed children for the second time in as many years. And this time, she cannot just write it off as being human. Her husband has killed and betrayed everyone. The Jedi, the Republic and even her. All in the name of power. Anakin's Force choke was the final straw. She couldn't take anymore. She may have been a fighter once, but people change. And she changed.
  13. JediCouncilMember Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2003
    star 4
    I think a good scene that shows this is the reunion scene right after they save Palpatine.

    Anakin sneaks away to see Padme and then eventually says he doesn't care who knows, and Padme is the one who says they must keep it secret.
  14. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    I agree with what Darth-Sinister says.

    Just to add to the conversation, I think that girls are supposed to be upset about how Padme turned out in ROTS, compared to what she was. This film IS a tragedy, remember.

    Anakin wasn't the ONLY character who fell in this movie. Padme did too. We're supposed to feel sorry for them to a degree, but we were all supposed to shake our heads and "tsk-tsk'd" her decision to "fall in love" with Anakin at the end of AOTC.

    Tragic characters have MAJOR faults. Yes, it DOES suck that these once heroes became less than heroic. But that is what the film is all about.

    We're NOT SUPPOSED TO ADMIRE their decisions.
  15. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    No, I think that the complaints about Padme in Episode III are lame. It really astounds me that many had expected her to be some kind of female Action Jackson when she was in her last trimester. What were you expecting? For her to die while fighting?

    And who in the hell are you to judge her as being selfish? Good grief! I hate it when people expect a writer to project their own morals and expectations in a character! What the **** did you expect? Trust me, I have committed this sin myself and it's not worth it.
  16. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Thats right Sinister, you've it nailed what Lucas was saying with Padme's death. For me, after seeing her demise several times now, it's actually the thing about that gets MORE tragic the more times you see. :_|
  17. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    I HAVE SAID THIS 20MILLION TIMES ALREADY!!! NO ONE EXPECTS PADME TO BE AN ACTION HERO WHILE SHE IS PREGNANT! Do I have to say this every 5 sentences so people like you will stop trying to put words in my mouth! Being strong does not have everything to do with physical strength; Padme was strong in TPM prior to that lame war sequence. She was once strong emotionally and mentally and then Lucas turns her into an idiot just because he needs her to die before the movie ends. There are dozens of strong females and males who portray this without getting physical. Padme is reduced to an ornament who is just there to get knocked up; Lucas copied the Leia and Luke motiff when he made Anakin and Padme:
    Blonde boy, orphan, lives on a desert planet, gets plucked off it by a jedi mentor and has a total sweet spot for brunettes
    Brunette girl raised on a beautiful planet surronded by pomp and grandeur, becomes a politician at a young age and gets saved by said blonde boy from desert planet.
    Lucas started padme off as being strong and a potential mother of Leia he just got lazy and needed to write her off quick. Dang Padme could have been betrayed as strong if she had atleast fought for her children instead of leaving them to clean up her mess. And yes Leia is suppose to redeem Padme like Luke redeems Anakin, but atleast Anakin had a back bone and didn't go out because he lost the will to live
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It's not just to kill her. But to make her more human. By showing that she has emotions other than being nuteral. She's a woman in love who is losing her husband every minute. This is not Leia Organa. This is Padme Amidala. She may share many of the same traits as her daughter, but ultimately she is human and subject to human frailities. Just as Anakin went from the kind and caring boy to the monster that is Vader, so has Padme gone from being the strong willed woman to a woman with an emotional crutch to her husband. Leia becomes emotional weak when Luke reveals that their history and that he's going to face their father. The only difference is that her heart isn't broken, like it is with Padme.

    In the end, she's like Anakin. Too emotionally attached.
  19. DarthSerta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2005
    star 1
    Padmé ´s role it´s linked to Palpatine´s role in Anakin´s life . His influnence in Anakins grows as Padmé´s disappears . In the deleted scenes we see how Palpatine mines their relation of trust.
  20. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    It is clear that Padme has to be erased it is how she is erased that is the problem. I would have rather seen her head blown off than just for her to give up for no reason. So her husband is an idiot SO WHAT! Ive stated this many times before but many other people in this saga had better reasons to give up on life but they continued to fight and none of them had a better reason than Padme who should hav tried to atleast fight for her children.
  21. SarlaccSurvivor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 1
    Yes, Anakin did die because he lost the will to live; he couldn't bear the thought of life without Padme. The only difference is that Anakin doesn't die physically; he only dies spiritually when his soul is taken over by Darth Vader. But Anakin's and Padme's downfalls are very similar. Sure, TPM Padme would have fought for her children, but TPM Anakin wouldn't have gone to the dark side either. Padme's didn't lose the will to live because Lucas got lazy. She did so to create a parallel to Anakin, who also lost the will to live, and to create a contrast with Luke and Leia, who could have but didn't.
  22. ObiWanIsTheOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    SarlaccSurvivor you pointed something interesting out. How TPM Anakin and Padme would have made different choices. They've grown since then and it reflects in their choices later on. Nice observation and comparison.
  23. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    Dont pull that Anakin isnt Vader crap with me, they are the same person only 2 sides of a different coin. Trying to pretend Vader isnt Anakin is excusing the horrible things Anakin did. Vader is nothing but a different name for the slave from a desert planet. Unless Anakin all of a sudden becomes a skitzo then he and Vader are the same person. Anakin didnt give up on life neither did Obi Wan or Yoda and they actually had reasons for it. Anakin took a different turn down a wrong path and he continued to fight for what he beleived in even though it was the wrong things.
    And Padme was human in TPM and AOTC in ROTS she is just pathetic! Humans dont give up that easily for no reason. It would be fine for her to die of a broken heart if it was more realistic and not in 5seconds while she is taking her children into death with her.
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