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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Did Lucas create the Sith, or was it EU?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Reign, Dec 21, 2001.

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  1. Matthew Trias

    Matthew Trias Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 1999
    "No, play the games - you are Farlander and Ace when you blow up both Death Stars - hell they even call you Ace in the mission in XWA, and like I said, does that mean Luke fought and killed the Sarlacc in ANH? Or that Luke fought lots of Wampas in ESB? Or killed two Royal Guards in ROTJ? Or that after ANH the EMpire only had abotu 5 planets under thier control? Talon Karrade was a member of the ALliance after ANH? Yes, its been pretty clear that GL likes making money, they made a Qui-Gon training figure and Obi-wan in "Cold Weather Gear" figure. "


    You shouldn't really have any problem with the Sith history if that's what you believe.Quality should be of no concern to you,since it is no concern of Lucas's.

     
  2. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    Read the official strategy guides bobabooie, it explaines the events the game doesn't go into detail about, in a semi-novelized form. Yes, ace was one of the people on board the falcon, there are 4 crew positions in the falcon cockpit(han and chewie useally have to cover all 4 positions themselves because they don't have a full crew, according to han solo and the lost legacy), and ace used one of those positions. Keyan farlander flies that y-wing that escapes the death star explosion at the end, it's all in the strat guides.

    If you are discussing rebellion only the ingame encyclapedia is valid informative part of the star wars universe.

    If you talk about super star wars it only refrenced for certain technical issues.

    But original stories, and stories which have novelized or EU written links, are officially part of the continuity. Something you can't deny when LFL throws it in our face over and over, that they are still valid. Fans can't invalidate the stoires. Only LFL can, and decide when and if it will be done. If LFL can come up with a "fix" they do, however contrived it may seem, it's still the official fix, and the Official continuity. Something fans have no right to deny, unless they want to sound ignorant and stupid.
     
  3. Matthew Trias

    Matthew Trias Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 1999
    Yep.

    It's explained that you jump characters.
     
  4. Jedi_Anakin_Solo

    Jedi_Anakin_Solo Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2001
    bobabooie, you seem to have a tendency to use the phrase "accept it" which would imply that you think you are always right which would imply that you are arrogent. I'm not saying you are, but if you aren't i would stop doing that.
     
  5. bobabooie

    bobabooie Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 3, 2001
    "that they are still valid" - not all of them are. As I said Boba Fett was no born on Concord Dawn anymore. GL decided he didn't like the old Sith history, he decided to make 3PO build by Anakin and not a factory, he didn't like the idea of the senate being big room where people just sit (as in New Rebellion). And like I said the Lost 20 are the ONLY JEDI to leave the Jedi order, and Ulic and Kun will not be mentioned, when Mu gives the history of the Sith the race will not be mentioned, GL is ereasing some of the EU stuff, just like he would with the NJO series if he wanted to make 3 more movies 25 years after ANH. I like EU, I read what I can/have time for, I "go by it" (ie - as far as I'm concerned SOTE happened, until GL says it didn't) but you have to accept that GL doesn't have that much to do with it and hes rewriting history with PT - and yes people need to accept it, and yes I am right and yes I am arrogant.
     
  6. Matthew Trias

    Matthew Trias Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 1999
    No he's not.If he was he would've had someone annouce that.

    "- not all of them are. As I said Boba Fett was no born on Concord Dawn"

    No source ever said he was born on Concord Dawn.
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    OK people, kindly be silent about episode II, some of us do not wish to be spoiled.

    Stop attributing motives and actions to Lucas that are not true Bobabooie.

    In regard to what is said of the Sith in TPM and told us in the novelization, there is no conflict. The Sith in the movie are the final representatives of a 2-millenia old order.

    It does not follow from this that any earlier mention of the Sith or story thereof becomes invalid. Just the contrary. The info we have on the early Sith make it clear that in the earlier orders, like in the recent Sith, internal division led to defeat. The Sith who killed themselves in a fraticidal fight, leaving Bane the last man standing simply took the divisive squabbling to new heights. Previous Sith orders millenia before also squabbled.

    Besides why are the Sith called? It is quite plausible that a number of fallen Jedi, find there were a legendary group of darksiders, who came near to ruling the galaxy; since they have the same ambition, and wish to put fear into their enemies, they take the name.

    Lucas OK'd the TOTJ epic of 4000 years ago in 1995, before he started work on the PT. There is no conceivable way DHC could have done a series on one of SW' mythological keystones, the Dark Lords of the Sith, without Lucas' approval; this is the back story to what Darth Vader was known as. That is fairly major in anyone's view.

    As for Kun and Ulic, yep, they left the order, betrayed it in fact; just as Anakin Skywalker will.

    You seem intent on saying that GL is:

    A fool for not telling Brooks about TOTJ
    Uninvolved thus ignorant of his own company's actions
    A money-grabbing schmuck who does not care

    You're wrong on all 3 counts. The early Sith orders were not relevant to the Sith in TPM, their backstory was not relevant for the novel. The only history we needed was the recent history of the Sith, not the entirety of it. Omission is not invalidation. He was involved in the TOTJ arc and knew what he was doing. IF GL was intent on money, the names Ulic and Kun WOULD have been dropped in the TPM book, so people would think eh? And go out and buy 5-6 TPBs of TOTJ comics. GL does do that, instead the Sith history is complete to the PTs, you need nothing more to understand the story. GL is not perfect but neither is he some archfiend capitalist!

    Jedi Ben
     
  8. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    does that mean Luke fought and killed the Sarlacc in ANH? Or that Luke fought lots of Wampas in ESB? Or killed two Royal Guards in ROTJ?

    DUDE...Who ever said that the SNES games are part of the continuity? You might as well think that the coloring books are, all of the Lego toys as well as the "Paint by Numbers" books.

    The only part of the games that people would consider taking seriously are the new creatures and ships that they show...such as the Gundark, the C.A.T. and some of the Jabba's Palace creatures. In fact, the Star Wars Visual Dictionary used the Jawa Sandcrawler level of Super Star Wars as reference.

    Or that after ANH the EMpire only had abotu 5 planets under thier control?

    Eh?

    Talon Karrade was a member of the ALliance after ANH?

    Huh?

    Yes, its been pretty clear that GL likes making money, they made a Qui-Gon training figure and Obi-wan in "Cold Weather Gear" figure.

    Er?

    To be one of hte Lost 20 you have to leave the Jedi order (only 20 Jedi have ever left) and Ulic and Kun left but aren't memebres of the lost 20.

    What you're talking about is Episode II spoilers, which don't belong in this forum. However, your ideas are seriously flawed. No one knows exactly what constitutes a member of that thing you speak of...whether only Knights and Masters are considered, or Padawans too. Also, Ulic never left the Order. He still considered himself a Jedi pretty much until he lost his powers. Exar Kun began using the dark side and still considered himself a Jedi for quite some time. Members of the institution you speak of probably don't keep fighting enemies or use their lightsabers...they have literally quit in every sense of the word. So stop touting this stuff as fact, because you aren't George Lucas, and until it's seen on paper, or a movie screen, it has absolutely no relevence in the Literature forum.

    IF darksiders are considered Lost Twenty, then what about the 50 that became Sith, according to the TPM novelization? Huh bobabooie? Gimme an answer for that.

    And if GL wanted the whole Sith History like that then he wouldn't have had Brooks say "The Sith came into being 2000 ago" - the Sith Race has been ereased - accept it.

    Since you're so blind to see what is written in the Essential Chronology, I'll do you a favor and post the text here...

    "The background and origins of the Sith Empire hold only a murky place in the annals of recorded history. We know of an ancient struggle of light side versus dark side, the first great schism within the Jedi Knights. After a century of bloodshed, the dark Jedi were defeated, and the survivors took their battered ships into exile, leaving known space behind and crossing the galaxy into uncharted territory. Eventually, the vanquished dark Jedi found a primitive civilization -- a new people to dominate -- the Sith.

    The dark Jedi were treated as gods by these powerful yet malleable people. With unlimited resources and willing human slaves, the Jedi exiles forged the Sith civilization into a new empire, bringing about a golden age of evil that was seperated from the Republic, in the wilds of the galaxy, thousands of light-years from the Perlemian Trade Route that was the Republic's outermost border at the time. Over the millennia, the dark rulers of the Sith Empire lost their charts and hyperspace maps, so they no longer even knew how to find the Republic.

    On the other side of the galaxy, records of the Jedi revolt faded, and the overthrow of the evil Force wielders fell from memory. Only folktales remained."


    After several battles and resurgances with the Sith, with Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun and others...

    2000 years before ANH

    "The original race of beings known as the Sith disappeared into the fog of history and haven't been seen since the Sith golden age. But the ancient teachings of Sith Lords and the tangible evil they wrought continued to plague the stability of the Republic. Over time, the term Sith took on its current meaning, that of a cul
     
  9. bobabooie

    bobabooie Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 3, 2001
    "IF darksiders are considered Lost Twenty, then what about the 50 that became Sith, according to the TPM novelization? Huh bobabooie? Gimme an answer for that. " - The novel doesn't say all 50 Sith were Jedi, it says the first memeber was a Jedi and the number of people in the Sith order swellded to 50 - some wre probably Jedi, some could have been the children not selected to be Padawans (since we see these in AotC's as well). GL disreguarded the old Sith History, accept it already.

    As for the trolling, you do the same thing in the Movie Forum - if you want to go crying to a mod. like a little girl becasue you can't take it, well, thats you.
     
  10. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    ENOUGH!

    Will every single frelling poster who wishes to discuss the lost frigin twenty get their arses out of this thread, out of the damn forum and over to the Ep 2 spoiler forum, right NOW!

    Sith Ben
     
  11. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    The novel doesn't say all 50 Sith were Jedi, it says the first memeber was a Jedi and the number of people in the Sith order swellded to 50 - some wre probably Jedi, some could have been the children not selected to be Padawans (since we see these in AotC's as well). GL disreguarded the old Sith History, accept it already.

    You obviously are blind, so I'll just disregard any point you make from now on.

    As for the trolling, you do the same thing in the Movie Forum - if you want to go crying to a mod. like a little girl becasue you can't take it, well, thats you.

    People always accuse me of trolling in PSA because they can never take the heat of what I say. I abide by the rules of the JC, and no admin or mod has ever warned me about anything, despite what others say about me in plain view.

    You, meanwhile, have been spreading Episode II spoilers in here, and flamed me. Have fun in ban land. If you're lucky, you'll get a warning.
     
  12. loontexas

    loontexas Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2001


    the lost twenty ARENT the only jedi to ever leave the JEDI, just the JEDI ORDER. theres a difference. thats why ulic and kun arent mentioned. anything before the order wont be counted.


    i think xanatos may be included though. also, it wouldnt count ALL darksiders as lost twenty, because some darksiders (like maul and sidious) never were jedi, and others where trained by fallen jedi.

    still others (like aurra sing) arent counted because they never reached the level of jedi. so when they say 'lost 20' they only mean people who were already jedi knights who left the jedi order (not the jedi, just the order) for whatever reasons.
     
  13. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Okay, let's be quiet. It's still a Episode II spoiler. Loon, you can use the EU thread in PSA if you want. Need a link? I'm going to bump it up soon.
     
  14. Matthew Trias

    Matthew Trias Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 1999
    "he didn't like the idea of the senate being big room where people just sit (as in New Rebellion"

    Even if that's true,the Senate hall in The New Rebellion is the one that was depicted in the Sith War.

    Guess Palpatine liked that one better.
     
  15. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    For some odd reason, bobabooie thinks that a building can't change, or a government can't use a different building, 50 years later.
     
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