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PT Did Lucas go too far in Revenge of the Sith?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Garrett Atkins, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    actually that is wrong

    Sociopaths believe themselves to be of superior intelligence praying on the weak "normal" people

    he then would see Anakin as his equal and not play him like a fiddle
     
  2. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    But Anakin didn't know which of the Tuskens had tortured his mother. It could have been the men, but it could also have been the women. Maybe in the Tusken culture, men torture male prisoners and women torture female prisoners, there's no way for him to know. Heck, it could have even been a rite of passage for the young tribe members and the children might have beaten her to prove their mettle.

    Regardless, this is also largely inconsequential from my point of view because I don't think Anakin was rational when he attacked -- he lashed out in a pain-fueled rage. When you are in a rage -- experiencing temporary insanity -- you don't exactly make "choices." In such a situation, you wouldn't be able to stop yourself.

    Also, I urge you to read the following on sociopaths and psychopaths:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m...ear-old-a-psychopath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Above all, psychopaths/sociopaths are manipulative and they would never feel the need to confess for killing. Anakin is by no means manipulative. In fact, he's easily manipulated by Palpatine. His confession of the slaughter, in fact, rather works against the notion that he's a sociopath.
     
  3. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    that is a completely speculative attempt to decriminalize Anakin, which it fails to do. He's a criminal, he should have been executed on Tatooine, after confessing to murder.
     
  4. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Above all, psychopaths/sociopaths are manipulative and they would never feel the need to confess for killing. Anakin is by no means manipulative. In fact, he's easily manipulated by Palpatine. His confession of the slaughter, in fact, rather works against the notion that he's a sociopath.

    ----

    BING BING BINGO
     
  5. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    If you wanted to get rid of all the Nazis in Germany after WWII, you'd have to basically nuke Germany until there was nobody left. That's what Fritz Lang said, anyway.
     
  6. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    not really, sociopaths don't necessarily see other sociopaths as equals.
     
  7. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    BTW, excuse the crudity and invalid premise of that joke. We ALL need to know about those matters. There's no "I" and there's no "ever". The world is in half the state it's in because we absorb the vulgar assumptions of our communities and do little questioning -- and little challenging -- of our own. Or as Einstein put it: "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."
     
  8. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    the Nazis made up like less than 15% of the German people...Most weren't even party members...
     
  9. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    I'm sure that would've worked out well. Calling someone a murderer on Tatooine would've been just like in "Apocalypse Now", handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

    In fact, I think that's another great analogy for Anakin. He's gone all the way up the river, like Kurtz. Only difference is his reason for getting off the boat is personal.
     
  10. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Padme should have executed him then
     
  11. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    What do you mean it's "completely speculative"? We don't know who in the tribe tortured Shmi to death and neither does Anakin. Thus your argument that he should kill only those who harmed her is rather odd. At the very least, all of the adults in that tribe were well aware that there was a woman being slowly tortured to death.

    Who would you have killed then? Or would you have walked away?

    Personally, I don't think any person who has undergone such a traumatic event is going to be able to walk away. Trauma unhinges people and what Anakin experienced was traumatizing in the extreme -- that's essentially what I'm getting at. I posted this on another thread, but one of the triggers of a psychotic break can be extreme stress or the loss of a loved one, both of which Anakin experienced intensely.

    I'm not saying you have to agree with me, I'm merely laying out my perspective of the films.

    If the same thing happened to my mother, I know I would not be in a rational state and I would not be able to make choices -- I would react to the pain and likely do something I would feel guilt and shame over (as Anakin did).
     
  12. Sistros

    Sistros Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2010
    not really, sociopaths don't necessarily see other sociopaths as equals.

    --

    some don't, you're quite right,

    but assumingAnakin is (not saying he is, as to me it takes the fantasy out of star wars to suggest any mental illness, or if we are then we have to accept THREEPEEO to have OCD, and I find that a rather insulting thing to imply) a sociopath or has sociopathic tendancies, Palpatine wouldn't be able to manipulate Anakin the way he did, or as easily as he did anyway
     
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  13. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    I don't think there's such a thing as a "citizen's execution".
     
  14. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    she's a senator; surely she had some judiciary powers. Regardless, she could (and should) have taken him to proper authorities.
     
  15. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    fixed
     
  16. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    There aren't any proper authorities on Tatooine. And considering that the Republic turned a blind eye to institutional slavery on that and probably other outer rim planets, I doubt you'd see any interest in rendering judgement there. It's frontier justice.

    And again, the whole idea of a lone individual, judiciarily empowered or not, simply gunning somebody down is a kind of sociopathy itself. At the very least, it would turn Padme into some kind of Dirty Harry figure.
     
  17. Chainmail_Jedi

    Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    I meant she should have taken him to a different world, and handed him to those authorities.

    Besides, Dirty Harry was a 'good guy'
     
  18. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 9, 2003
    Emphasis on the quotation marks.
     
  19. EvilQ

    EvilQ Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2013
    You're missing what's probably the most important symptom: lack of remorse.

    Anakin did not lack remorse, whereas Palpatine did.
    Agreed.
     
  20. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
     
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  21. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Personally I'd diagnose Anakin with PTSD and narcissistic personality disorder, not antisocial personality disorder. But you can make a good case for either. He also has paranoid tendencies.

    1) He kills the younglings because they'd grow up to want revenge on the regime who killed their foster parents/mentors. It was completely logical to take them out and Vader is the kind of person who is capable of such things. However, some argue, Anakins fall was too fast. I don't. The step from massacring Tusken kids to massacring kids isn't that big.

    2) They were also a threat.

    3) She was a threat to him as proven when Obi-Wan appeared. For Vader it must have seemed as if she brought Obi-Wan with her to kill him.

    4) Duh!

    I'm fascinated by Darth Vader but there's no doubt he is a nutcase. Being insane is probably part of the job description in the higher ranks of the empire. You can't survive there unless you are merciless and paranoid and Vader is both in abundance.
     
  22. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    That's right. We know nothing about the Tuskens and their structures. Female lions are more frenquent hunters than male lions, for example.

    And people always seem to ingnore that the Tuskens attack Anakin after he had killed the first two Tusken guards in rage. People always act as if all the Tusken were sleeping and Anakin killed them in their sleep. That's not what we see on screen. The film actually hints a fight with an unknown number of participants.

    When Anakin killed the younglings, however, he made a conscious choice. He wanted to save Padmé at all costs. It's a very different situation.
    The Tusken raiders also ignored law. They lived outside of society and law. And justice.
    The youngligns didn't.
     
  23. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Yea I'm sure the toddler Tuskens attacked Anakin.
     
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  24. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Tatooine wasn't in republic jurisdiction at that point, so taking him to another planet would be a waste of time, and if she turned him into the Hutts, they would probably laugh and give Anakin some credits for his work.
     
  25. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Or maybe saving Padmé was just an excuse to indulge in his hunger for power and control. Evidenced by him choking Padmé when she didn't submit to his will.

    His psychotic breakdown when he failed to save his mother also seems to stem from loss of control. He just can't deal with perceived lack of power because of some inferiority complex caused by his slave upbringing. That's also why he "can't let go".

    He even chose a mate that is fairly easy to manipulate. A single tearful confession results in Padmé forgiving him mass murder.

    Anakin Skywalker is extremely dangerous.