Did Lucas unknowingly make Light Saber duels almost obsolete?

Besides all that,
I think that GL wanted to portray Vader's superior power with the Force.
Not just anybody can block a blaster bolt with thier hand.

 

...i be;eive jocasta nu said that luke left his sabre aboard the millenium falcon...


...and just to reiterrate what we have been saying...a sabre is of no use to you defensively if you cannot see things before they happen...and it takes long training from masters of the art to be weilded effectively...

 

Well Luke did it in record time.

 

I think Lucas' idea of the Jedi using a lightsaber illustrates their belief in balance. Watch the documentary on the TPM DVD about "Jedi in their Prime." Nick Gillard asks why would the Jedi choose "such a short-range weapon?" Then explains that it is because of their sense of balance/purpose and training that they can weild a lightsaber in a world full of blasters. Look at Qui-Gon during the battle of Naboo, he was taking down battle droids by deflecting their own shots back at them; as well as utilizing the "Force-push."

Even Han's remark of "hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a blaster at your side" tells us that after the Jedi Purge everyone (who can) remember the time of the Jedi has reduced the ability of the lightsaber to myth and old wive's tales. Since there was (supposedly) nobody left with the expertise besides Darth Vader.

I don't think lightsaber duels are "obsolete;" I think the world around them is changing, to where the public doesn't have the same kind of reverence for the Jedi as in the past. I liked the comparison between Jedi and samurai; and even Medieval Knights. There is something more honorable about swordfighting then just shooting a gun.

And yes, Jedi lightsaber training has been part of prequel EU for a while. In the jedi Apprentice books, there are many scenes where Obi-Wan (and even Qui-Gon) is sparing with other padawans at the Jedi Temple. Although, training lightsabers will not cut, they do give quite a shock when contact is made. Apparently, this is one of the Jedi techniques lost when Luke first establishes the Jedi Academy; since Tenel Ka loses an arm in a lightsaber training accident.

 

Krash, What I meant was the fact that there's no one to duel with. There's no real threat from the Sith so there's no need to duel.

 

There was a discussion in the TPM forum recently where several people were criticisng Lucas for having the Jedi use lightsabers instead of blasters. Then it was pointed out that once you get annoyed by Jedu using lightsabers to defend themselves, it may be time to stop watching Star Wars films
I was glad when that topic got locked.

 

LOL DH!!!
Ya, that's like being annoyed by Homer's "D'oh!"

Anyway, I think its really cool that they insist on using lightsabers. It fits perfectly with their samurai mold (as was previously mentioned).
In feudal Japan only samurai were alowed to wear a katana on their belt. Not only was it their main weapon but it was the sign of a bushi (warrior).
Even in the 19th/20th century fights between men of that rank were settled with swords (even though they could have used guns).

The practice of the sword, even when dueling became very rare, continued because it became a spiritual exercise... "The art of cutting one's opponent in half became the art of cutting your mind in half (ie. self exploration)"
Same thing with the Jedi.
History lesson is over.

 

KiKi, I like it too, but I also would like to see more bad guys using a Saber.

 

have you noticed how the pace and tone of the lightsaber battles changed frum the OT to the PT? the fighters are a lot more skilled than they are in the OT and they move way faster

 

I personaly love vaders hand block, and I kinda like how it's mysterious... It would be neat if it was explained.... but like the force lightning ( maybe it has been explained, I've just never heard an official explination) it would be cool to know why, but the mystery of it also has a certain quality.

 

Lightsabers are so special because Jedi only use them. Anyone can hold a gun and shoot it. But it would take years of disciplined training to weild a lightsaber (or sword for today) effectivly in combat and defence.

Lucas has said many times the Jedi are based in part from the Ancient Samurai. This is apparent in both weapon and dress.

Aside from the blatant mythic theme for the first movie of Luke inheriting his father's lightsaber. Just like, for example, Arthur drawing the sword from the stone, it holds huge significance for Luke to be using this ancient weapon once held by his father.

This wouldn't be quite as powerful of a theme if everyone and their grandma carried one around.

 

However, Luke did block/deflect many blaster bolts in ROTJ. Also it probably never occured to Luke to use his lightsaber to try and cut through the trash compactor door. I am sure OB1 didn't have time to explain every possible use of the lightsaber to Luke in the short time they were together.

 

...again luke left his lightsabre aboard the millenium falcon...nice name quigon...

 

You know, when I first saw TPM, I wasn't sure how the different Sader fighting styles would mesh. I mean, the Saber fights in 4, 5 and 6 were very straight forward. But in TPM, the flips, the saber twirls...but after thinking about it, I guess it makes sense. When the Jedi were still the force to be reckoned with (no pun intended), I guess the fighting style would be much more fluid and fancy (is that the right word?).

anyway...

Bucky...out

 

The OT (especially the Luke/Vader fights) are very Japanese/Samurai inspired. This, of course, makes perfect sense.

Ep I was very Chinese (Wushu). That's an overly fancy style (IMO) that isn't based so much on real combat so I was worried going into Ep I but they pulled it off well.

I'm guessing Ep II will have some Escrima (Phillipines) fighting in it. I won't say why since this is a non-spoiler forum.

 

The fact that the pace and intensity of TPM-Episode III lightsaber fighting has been stepped up (compared to OT) makes perfect sense. At the time of ANH, all of the "Jedi arts" were all but lost with the "Jedi Purge." And we've all heard the explaination that what we saw in Ot were old men and young half-trained students. Luke flipping over Vader in ESB is very elementary stuff compared to the Jedi order of TPM. Doesn't mean it's less exciting...just a almost lost artform.

 

so far we have not seen a lot of the Republic when the Jedi fight. Maybe they do use it in other times but George doesn't want to show it.

 

I know people have said this already, but why would a "normal" person carry a lightsaber? Okay, they would stand no chance in a duel against a Jedi, but they could fight each other, right? No: It's the same reason why people don't use swords to fight these days. They are no use against a gun (blaster). The Jedi have the Force, so they can still use the lightsaber. As for the story, I think it makes it much more interesting to have the lightsaber as a Jedi/Sith-only weapon. It shows that you have great skill and confidence if you use a lightsaber when your enemy has a blaster.

Why do they still practice dueling when there are no Sith to fight? If you are going to learn a discipline, you might as well learn everything there is to learn about that discipline. If you are training to be a Jedi, then you will learn to block with the lightsaber, but also how to swing it (cutting down enemies and so on). Dueling techniques are just an expansion of those saber skills. Plus, as someone else said, it is traditional to learn dueling and is probably tied in with the whole "being one with the Force" control thing.

 

I have a french sword hanging on my wall, and if some robber broke into my house, I would use it, but I was never trained how to use it. I still think it would be cooler if most people had a Saber, like most had a gun in the wild west. They are not going to be as good as a Jedi or Sith but they still have them.

 

Your sword example still strikes me as being equivalent to Han using the lightsaber in a desperate situation because he had to (on Hoth) rather than it being a commonly used weapon.

As for the concept paintings by Ralph McQuarrie, I have seen a picture of a Stormtrooper with a lightsaber but I don't know if that was McQuarrie's imagination or if George Lucas originally intended it to be a common weapon. Anyway, I am glad he made it a Jedi-only thing. I think we'll have to agree to disagree at this point!

 

Everyone can use a Sword or Lighsaber to some degree,just not as good as Jedi or Sith. I would love a scene were a group gunfighter types with Saber's challenge Obi or any Jedi/Sith, and get their ass kicked.

 

They'd have to be pretty stupid to pick a fight with a Jedi. Unless they didn't know it was a Jedi (if, like you suggest, everyone has a lightsabre). They might recognize Jedi by the robes though.

 

Lets just say a Jedi dies on a planet, and some smugglers find his body and his Saber. The head Smuggler takes the Saber and hangs it on his belt. Then next time he gets in a bar fight he slices some guy in half before the guy was ready. He get to thinking he good at using a Saber, then one day he bumps into a Jedi and takes a swip at him, the Jedi cuts his arm off with the Saber, this guys men attack the Jedi and the Jedi wipes them all out.

 

I don't see the point to this thread? First of all tell me how lightsaber dueling is obselete? Its obvious that as long as you're proficient enough in the force you can deflect any blaster fire you might encounter in a fight. Add to the fact that you can actually deflect a blast back at the user there should be no doubt that a lightsaber, if in the right hands, is superior to a blaster. So, how do you fight someone with a lightsaber? You use your own lightsaber, then it all comes down to swordsmanship, attunement with the force, whatever.

So, why don't more people use lightsabers? Well it should be equally obvious that the power of a lightsaber depends on the skill of the wielder, and we are made to believe that only the force can make someone truly effective with a lightsaber. And unless you have this skill, guess what, your better off with a blaster.

ROTJ was the first time we really get a glimpse of what a Jedi can do versus "conventional" weapons. I mean, imagine seeing it for the first time after ANH and ESB and all the sudden you see Luke doing gravity defying leaps, using his saber to deflect blaster fire, and all sorts of stuff. What we saw in TPM just pushes that to the next level, where we see fully trained Jedi in a society that relies upon them to uphold peace and justice (marshall's of the old west is lucas' analogy).

One more thing to keep in mind is that by the time TPM rolls around lightsaber dueling isn't really something that has any practical use. The sith is thought long gone, so that rules out the possibility that a jedi would have to duel an advesary. So when Darth Maul bursts on the scene you can imagine why he is superior to the existing Jedi. Combined with the fact that he's a bada$$, the jedi simply don't expect to have to fight in saber combat.

Anyways, bottom line is you can try to dispute Lucas on a lot of things, but lightsabers and their usefulness (as wielded by jedi) is untouchable. It makes me wonder whether you've seen the same movies that I have.

 

Newbalicious

"One more thing to keep in mind is that by the time TPM rolls around lightsaber dueling isn't really something that has any practical use."

You just admitted what I was saying all along!