CT Did Luke not expect the Emperor to fight?

He threw away his lightsaber (yes, I know that shows his Jedi qualities) and was certainly unprepared to defend against Palpatine's lightning attack. It was stated several times in the films that the emperor is strong with the dark side, yet luke didn't seem to consider him a threat. This also raises the question of how known was it that Palpatine had the dark side. Yoda made no mention of Luke having to confront Palpatine, just Vader. That may be why Luke didn't expect Palpatine to be so powerful.

 

He had his opportunity to slay the Emperor but Vader intervened. It was two against one and Luke had succeeded in taking out Vader that still left a fully powerful Sith in a position of strength.

 

It's certainly possible though I imagine Luke would have at least it expected him to have some kind of trick up his sleeve. As said above, Luke knew that in the absolute worst scenario, all three men would be dead. That was a scenario that Luke could settle with. I like to think that him turning away from the Dark Side was a way for him to test his own father into letting go and coming to his side; he had the bravery to do what his father couldn't. Palpatine probably made that an easier decision by deciding to just roast him though.

 

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain."

Luke decided to go for option A). Luckily for him, so did Vader. He probably thought that Palpatine would have some sort of trick up his sleeve but given Yoda's training seemed to skip over ''Force Lightning 101'' probably he didn't realise exactly what he had let himself in for.

 

So in the SSE, Luke will go over to the ghost Yoda and throttle him for not telling him about the lightning?

 

I don't think Luke being hit unexpectedly means he didn't consider the emperor a threat. As far as not knowing he was a Sith, Yoda told him "do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor," and that if he did, he would suffer his father's fate. To me that would make it crystal clear that he knew the emperor's power. But I will accept that he (presumably) didn't know about force lightning, and much less how to deflect it-in fact if we recall, no one in the saga films could (without a lightsaber), except Yoda.

I think Luke being hit unexpectedly by the lightning is no different than when Yoda was hit with it by Sidious in ROTS. Just caught them by surprise.

 

Interestingly, I think the novelization mentioned Luke absorbing the lightning with very limited success before he was completely vulnerable. Of course we never see him do more than flinch in the movie itself. And from my pov, that one detail actually alters a lot about the feeling of the scene

DARTH_BELO - I laughed more than I should have at the update to your sig

 

Luke felt his father's internal struggle to do good... he felt it in ESB as he knew his father didn't have it in him to kill him. The struggle was even more apparent when Vader tells him "It's too late for me." Luke wanted to leave it up to Vader, he knew he wasn't going to kill the Emperor but together with Vader they had a shot at ending him and he was right!

 

Palpatine being a Sith lord or even being able to use the force was an absurd rumor in the eyes of the general population. It was esoteric knowledge, only very few people ever knew. The Emperor was considered to be a strong but private ruler, who was viciously attacked by Jedi in times past. By this logic, it would be fair to presume Luke didn't understand the true power of the Emperor, hence Luke's shock when Palpatine removed his restraints using the force.

Yoda didn't mention it because it was an uncertain time for Luke and it may have dissuaded him from confronting Vader- Yoda and Obi Wan were desperate at this point. Also, the true struggle was Vader's redemption. Yoda's short dialogue about the Emperor's power was ambiguous at best, it may have been interpreted as power of manipulation, or quite simply political power.

 

Ok, but then Yoda should have recounted that to Luke, possible warning him not to make that same mistake. And at least Yoda was prepared to use his lightsaber in ROTS, while Luke didn't think he needed it.

 

Not sure what you're implying? So Luke doesn't know Vader's master is a Sith Lord and dark side user? That doesn't make much sense. Yoda/Obi-wan would never throw Luke blind into a fight like that with how much they were pushing him to be prepared and ready before he faced Vader. They expected him to go in there kill Vader and then incapacitate and or destroy the Emperor, even if he had to sacrifice himself in doing so. I think they believed since he had the close to the same potential Anakin had he would be able to beat Palapatine with his abilities.

 

It doesn't seem like he did, though. Anakin at his peak probably could have withstood the lightning, and definitely wouldn't have gotten rid of his weapon.

 

I don't think the lightsaber would have helped much, anyway. Episode III makes it pretty clear that you can only hold back Sidious's Force lightning with a lightsaber for so long before he overwhelms you anyway. Mace was a fully trained Jedi Master and (at the very least) the second most powerful Jedi in the galaxy in terms of current power at that point, and even he was barely able to hold it back. Luke would be toast.

 

That's all knowledge POST the prequels though before them we had NO idea how powerful Palpatine was.... I mean there's no reason to assume in ROTJ that Luke couldn't have killed both Vader and Palpatine based on how powerful Lucas made them at the OT. It's only after ROTS where we see Palpatine can wipe out 4 jedi, go to a standstill with Yoda and carries a lightsaber that we are retroactively assuming it's ludicrous for Obi-wan/Yoda to have wanted a Jedi Knight Luke to waltz into the throne room and kill the Sith.

 

IMO, I think Luke was willing to lay down his life for his friends, and more importantly, his fallen father. Possibly hoping to bring his father to the light, showing him no matter what, we always have a choice.

But that's just me.

 

Before the prequels, we had no idea lightsabers could even defend against Force lightning. It was eminently clear that Luke was no match for the Emperor. Even back then, it would be ludicrous to have come away from the movie thinking Luke could have gone toe-to-toe with him under any circumstances.

 

Of course he knew Palpatine would fight. He chose to allow himself to hit with Lightning so he could plea to his father to turn away from the Dark side and save him or he would lose another person he loved that he could not save since he failed to save his mother and his wife.

 

No but we saw someone able to withstand a barrage of lighting again and again for pretty long time and he wasn't fighting back AT ALL. He was just taking it so his father could step in and rescue him. Also the fact Vader was able to just "pickup" Palpatine carry him over his head and launch him into his death while being struck with lightning himself is pretty odd now considering what we know of Palp in the prequels. He can launch himself into the air/twril and do insane force speed movements but was unable to defend against Vader or leap from his grasp. Luke actually engaging Palpatine with a lightsaber and movement and cutting him down in ROTJ doesn't seem too far fetched when you see how easy it was for Vader to dispatch of the Emperor.

 

Rickleo123, I don't think you have a good grasp on the characterisation of Palpatine, Luke and Darth Vader given your analysis. Luke most likely didn't know Palpatine was a Sith lord. He was simply told not to underestimate the power of the Emperor; most of the focus was on Vader, given the familial connection. Yoda and Obi Wan have not explicitly told Luke to kill Vader, but to simply confront him.

Luke did not endure a barrage of force lightning. He probably experienced a trickle: if that. Palpatine was very slowly torturing Luke, for his own sadistic pleasure.

Regarding Vader "picking-up" Palpatine made me laugh. This is taken out of context. Palpatine was enveloped by the dark side and was consumed by thwarted rage, he lost touch with his surroundings at the wrong moment. His rightful arrogance also fuelled his undoing. He realised a moment too late. If this was a head on battle, Palpatine could kill Vader like this:



I recommend you do some reading about Palpatine and the extent of his power, which is left mostly ambiguous in the new canon.

 

Either way Darth Formidious it was a stab in the back by his most loyal apprentice that defeated Palpatine. It is worth pointing out he expected Luke to kill Vader or Vader to kill Luke he would win either way. The signs of betrayal he did not see in Vader.

 

Some of it could be is that Luke was starting to tip the force back into a the light, reducing Palp's power somewhat, as he commented earlier in the film that it was strange he could not foresee Luke being on the Endor moon.

 

Darth Formidious

In ESB, Vader tells Luke he can destroy the Emperor who has foreseen this (Luke recently had some Force visions himself). Vader's statement indicates that Vader has interest in overthrowing the Emperor and he hasn't done so already because he can't. Thus the Emperor must hold power over him with the Force. This conversation sets up the problem immediately to Luke: his father is practically enslaved to the Emperor, he can't break free, and he would need help from another Force user to do so.

"Only a fully trained Jedi knight with the Force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor," Yoda says. You need the Force to defeat them both, IOW.

Luke says that he can see the good in Vader; the Emperor hasn't driven it from him fully. How could the Emperor be such a driving force here if he is not powerful with the Force?

When Luke asks Vader to come with him, Vader tells him he doesn't understand the power of the Dark Side. "I must obey my master," Vader says. Luke knows that Vader is a servant to the Emperor; if the Emperor had no power with the Force, Vader would not be in this pickle.

All of these things indicate Luke must know that the Emperor is powerful with the Force, and Yoda warns him not to underestimate just how powerful or he'll end up in the Emperor's pocket just like his dad. Unless you mean Luke didn't know the Emperor was a Sith specifically, but he doesn't know to classify Vader as that either. He just knows they both use the Dark Side.

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Unrelatedly I rather wonder how Yoda and Obi-Wan thought that Luke would be able to "conquer" Vader and the Emperor. If it was Luke vs. the two of them, they'd kill him. Just Luke vs. the Emperor alone would produce this result.

And when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan is all "then the Emperor has already won." Ironically the Emperor would have won if Luke had killed his father.

 

Yoda had never faced the Emperor in the original trilogy. He knew the Emperor was very strong with the dark side and capable of very powerful attacks against Luke, but there was no way he could know exactly what the Emperor would do. He couldn't tell Luke to watch out for a lightning attack, because then for 20something years people would have asked "how in the world did Yoda ever know about the Emperor's lightning attack?"

Yoda simply told Luke not to underestimate the Emperor. In other words, he may look like an old man, but he's very strong in the dark side. Watch out. It was good advice.

 

Yes, force powers are about so much more than what you can see. If you just go by what the camera shows, Luke had nowhere to hide when he was under the stairs and Vader was looking for him. I always assumed that Luke was using force powers to hide from Vader so Vader couldn't see him. Similarly, Luke was using force powers to absorb the Emperor's attack, but he was nowhere near as strong as the Emperor and could not fend off the lightning for very long.