CT Did Luke not expect the Emperor to fight?

I understand that Luke was told about the Emperor's power and to assume he was a force user but his powers were cloaked in mystery and his Sith identity wasn't discussed. Luke knew the Emperor was powerful, but power could mean using the force in a passive manner. I think Luke really didn't understand the level of malevolence he was dealing with.

This difference in opinion is one of the beauties of Star Wars!

 

I think more than anything I wasn't sure of what you were saying, and I think I would mostly agree with this... Although Yoda might have looked like a passive Force user too until he got Luke's ship out of the lake (so Luke already has a lesson). I "underestimated" Yoda myself in that I didn't think he was a warrior, but a mystic. It's not that I thought it would be impossible for him to fight, but I suspected he wasn't interested in doing so and probably had never been trained to use a lightsaber. Also he was busy with his lines like "wars do not make one great" and so I thought he guided warriors but it wasn't his particular path. I was all annoyed at first with the Yoda fight scenes in the PT, thinking it out of character.

 

I just wanted to mention that Luke's behavior next to the Emperor in ROJ has also been discussed in this older thread: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...he-emperor-before-electrocuting-him.50040418/

Definitely worth to take a look at, IMHO.

 

I remember the Force lightning being an awesome surprise as an audience member. Pretty sure Luke had no idea it was coming either.

The Emperor actually tells Luke he is unarmed. He tempts him to strike him down. I'd suggest the whole ploy revolved around making Luke think he wouldn't fight.

And lest we forget, Luke succumbed.

 

That's a nice little detail. If not for Vader, Luke would have fallen to the Dark Side by slaying the emperor.

 

BadCane wrote

If not for Vader, Luke would have fallen to the Dark Side by slaying the emperor.

But isn't that what Vader wanted to accomplish in ESB? Come to think of it, I would not have been too surprised had Vader not deflected Luke's blow.

 

Yes, but in ESB Vader wasnt being tempted by the light.

 

Love this comment. It is also why I love the PT. You watch scenes like that with a totally different mindset. It is similar to how Anakin reacted to Mace attacking Palpatine. It was more than just protecting Palpatine. It was also about watching the Jedi essentially take a Sith move of "he's too dangerous to be left alive" (both Palps and Mace saying this) and getting caught up in the deception of both sides.

Was Vader protecting Luke or Palps with his block of Luke's killing blow to the Emperor? No matter the answer, he essentially protected Luke.

In a way it is yet another mirror of Luke and Anakin's journey of destiny.

Anakin passed his first test in not striking down a defenseless Palpatine upon discovery as the Sith Lord.
Luke failed his first test in attempting to strike down a *defenseless* Palpatine.

Luke then reversed his first decision thanks to his attachment to family.
Anakin then reversed his first decision thanks to his attachment to family.

Lucas era Star Wars was all kinds of awesome.

 

That's a great analysis. Remember that GL always said that the movies were like stanzas, set to rhyme with each other.

 

"You don't know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master" You can assume that if someone as powerful as Vader fears upsetting his master(even if he hates him) then he must have some power beyond his own capabilities. I'm sure Luke figured this out. The dark side breeds on overconfidence, so he probably thought he would simply kill them both when he was in this trance. Once he got over his brush with the dark side, he remembered, oh yeah "You will be forced to kill me" but "You can't do this. I feel the conflict in you." So Luke realized Vader had fear of the Emperor's power, but it wasn't stronger than the compassion he had for his son. He knew the Emperor would attack but he also knew his father would intervene, so he had no worry of the Emperor's retaliation.

 

I totally agree with this! Yoda was originally conceived as a mystic and a non-warrior. A pseudo-pacifist would be the best description for him in the OT. George Lucas went as far as saying Yoda wasn't a Jedi but a Jedi master. Apparently, Jedi masters weren't Jedi and not adept at combat... very confusing stuff. His PT persona was very distant from his OT philosophy.

 

there is a conflict between being a warrior and being a monk/mystic and the jedi are typically both (as in a single jedi tries to be both). i wonder if it's on purpose in these stories.

 

As I recall, Luke attempted to deflect Sidious's lightning in the novelization. It worked for a second, and then Sidious upped the ante. The way I interpret it is that, had Vader not intervened, Sidious would have continued the barrage until Luke's screams began to cease, and then he would have flash-fried him.

 

Palpatine was powerful with the dark side, Luke knew it. But as stated, Luke didn't go to fight him. That would be pointless, considering how much powerful Sidious is. He was there to face Vader. If Vader could be turned away from the dark side, Luke would have accomplished his goal. If he couldn't, he would die. He went there knowing that. That's why he threw away his saber. Vader was already defeated and he wouldn't fight a pointless battle against Sidious. He was ready to die.

 

The exchange between Luke and the Emperor was spot-on:

"Your overconfidence is your weakness.

Your faith in your friends is yours".

Palpatine was insanely strong with the Dark Side, making him arrogant and single-minded. That was how Darth Vader was able to save Luke, knowing that the Emperor's full attention was on tormenting (and eventually killing) Luke.

While Luke willingly went to the Death Star to try and redeem his father, in the grand scheme it was a diversion so their guard would be let down just enough for the Alliance to get off one good shot and destroy it, regardless if Luke was on it or not. He was willing to die for the cause - getting his father to come back to the Light was simply a bonus.

 

Malthael wrote

Luke willingly went to the Death Star to try and redeem his father.

IMHO, he tried that on the Endor landing platform but then gave up. The one thing he most definitely did not want to do was to kill his father.

So I assume he was rather relieved learning about the Alliance's plan. All he had to do was to make certain him and Vader went to the Death Star, so they would both be killed in the Alliance attack.

 

When Luke throws away the lightsaber he states his intentions, he's a Jedi and if continuing to fight risks him turning to the Darkside (as he just showed by owning Vader) then he isn't going to fight. He will die as a Jedi, with honor. I believe he figures they are all going to die on the Death Star anyway, so he chooses to die as he wished to live, on the lightside.

He knew the Emporer would try to kill him, but he figured he was basically dead anyway, so why not do the ultimate trust fall with his father? It was kind of a win/win or lose/lose situation, depending on your point of view. Either way, he wasn't going to kill Vader and he wasn't going to turn to the Darkside like the Emporer wanted. He threw his lightsaber away and let the Force and Vader, decide on the outcome.