Did Obi-wan fail Anakin?

I know of 3 time Obi-wan states he failed Anakin: The first in ROTS when he tells Anakin that he failed him. The second is stated in the book Star War ANH Telling Luke Vader was one of his great disciples and greatest failures, the 3 was also with Luke in ROTJwhen he says he thought he could instruct Anakin as well as Yodi and he was wrong.
Did he really fail Anakin or was he clouded in grief and guilt over the loss of a friend?

 

Even though Obi-wan shoulders the blame, he really didn't fail Anakin. He believes that because he wanted the boy to become a Jedi and instead, he ultimately became a Sith. But in the end it was Anakin who failed Anakin.

 

I believe you're right. In many ways Anakin failed Obi-wan.

 

I agree

 

QFT

 

Obi Wan feels guilty because he is the one that asked Anakin(on the council's behalf) to spy on Palpatine. To Obi Wan and the rest of the council this was the catalyst for Anakin's turn.

They didn't know he was already well on his way. So I guess the fact that Obi Wan put him in the position to be torn between the Jedi and Palpatine he failed him, but Anakin failed Obi Wan and himself more than Obi Wan ever did him.

 

But in the end it was Anakin who failed Anakin.

Not so much as anyone failing anyone, but Palps succeeding. It was he who did the mind game on Anakin for 13 years.

 

I agree. I cannot forbear, however, to wonder why Obi-Wan, who spent so much more time with Anakin than Palps, wasn't able to counteract that mind gaming thing.

 

I agree. I cannot forbear, however, to wonder why Obi-Wan, who spent so much more time with Anakin than Palps, wasn't able to counteract that mind gaming thing.

Its kinda simple. Obi-Wan wouldnt allow himself to praise Anakin like Palps did. The praise was the key thing.

 

Possibly. But then Obi-Wan should've asked himself why Anakin was in such desperate need of praise - a need no confident and self-assured person feels.

 

It is hard to say I suppose. I think that in the end though, Anakin was a reasoning sentient being, and he was responcible for his own actions. Obi Wan did not murder the Jedi, Obi Wan did not join the Empire. And throughout the films I felt that Obi Wan tried very hard to keep Anakin on the right track, but I guess goodness of intent is not the same thing as effectiveness. But I also do not really think that anyone, not even Qui-Gon, would have had much of a shot at changing the way things turned out. I just dont think Anakin had much of a chance. He was already very attached to his mother and his desire to be more than just a slave, more than even a good and worth Jedi, was also firmly in place, not to mention his love of Padme, which remained strong over years and years of both an absence from her and Anakin's maturation. Add Palaptine's machinations, and well I guess I just feel like Vader's rise was almost inevitable.

Perhaps more effective than a change in Obi Wans teaching style would have been a more dedicated effort in general on the part of the council to not have Anakin be so close to Palapatine, and maybe I suppose they also should have limited his contact with Padme, I think it Anakin made it pretty clear to Obi Wan how he felt.

 

I just wonder why Obi Wan would let Anakin spend so much time with Palpatine. I mean they talk about the politicians like dogs and then you let your padawan visit one on a daily basis. I think Obi Wan should have stepped up to the plate when Anakin was younger and put a stop to Palpatine's NAMBLA-esqe routine...

 

I agree

 

MY 10,000th post!


Obi-Wan didn't fail Anakin. He says that because he has bad feelings about his promise to Qui-Gon is turns out null and void. You've allowed this Dark Lord to twist your mind... so here he's putting the blame on Skywalker.

Anakin chose his own path for understandable, yet stupid reasons. All Kenobi wanted was for Anakin to become a great Jedi but instead he falls to the dark side of the Force. On top of that, Obi-Wan is no longer Anakin's teacher. So, in essence in a twist, it was Anakin who failed himself and Obi-Wan.

 

Obiwan does feel guilty for Anakin's fall, and his comment about how he thought he could instruct Anakin like Yoda taught him falls right in line with Yoda's realization in the ROTS novel when he's fighting Palpatine.

The Jedi knew of only one way to train Jedi, and Obiwan followed that. Anakin's life was different, so his training, most importantly his outlook on life, should have been handled differently. Anakin was raised to love, not to distance himself, and it was evident after 10 years of Jedi training that he hadn't strayed too far from that. He loved the people he was close to, and the Jedi told him he was wrong for that. The embodiment of that doctrine was Obiwan Kenobi. Anakin revered Obiwan, but was openly resistent to Obiwan throughout the PT, and ultimately resulted in their clash on Mustafar.

Obiwan realized that he could have been more of a friend to Anakin, instead of letting Palpatine "twist his mind". Obiwan shoulders the blame because he was the only one who remotely had a chance of making a difference in Anakin's life.

 

Anakin failed hismelf.

 

In a way yes but I think he was the best of all the jedi's that could have trained Anakin, I really dont know what Qui Gon would have done for him but Obi Wan was right for the job.

 

Palpatine was so successful due to the fact that he was able to sense what it is Anakin wanted, deep down. He knew that Anakin came from a life where things are different from what it is for most people. Anakin grew up with an idealized image of what the galaxy was. When Anakin went out to be a Jedi, in his travels, he saw that things were not what he expected them to be. He disagreed with many of the decisions the politicians would make. He felt it was a waste of time trying to debate how things should be done. That youthful optimism that he used to have was clashing with the real world. So Palpatine played up the idea that it would be best to support a dictatorship, which forces people to do what someone wants, for their own good. Palpatine also used Anakin's ego against him. Obi-wan did praise Anakin, but he was also trying to point out Anakin's flaws and other weaknesses. Palpatine only focused on Anakin's strengths.

Finally what did it was the fact that Anakin let his fear, anger, hate, possessiveness, obsessiveness and jealousy feed into his greed. By suggesting that the Jedi are hiding things from him, by tricking him into thinking that they are against him and the galaxy, does he gain the advantage. By making him question the Jedi and their teachings, does he get what he wants. Obi-wan was losing a battle that he had no clue he was fighting. He thought that he was fighting Anakin's own internal demons and not Palpatine's influence. That's why Luke is totally kept away from the Sith. Why it was best for him to be with family and later trained in seclusion. It made it more difficult for Sidious and Vader to corrupt him.

 

My friends and I had a discussion about this after the film. I think the Jedi were naive in thinking they could make this work. They were too rigid. Anakin shoulders the blame but who would you side with in the situation. Dont think Sith and Jedi. Think a person who has "listened" to all your concerns and never seemed to judge you. Or the person who is always hard on you. Granted it is for his own good but I didn't get the friend vibe too much between Obi Wan and Anakin, one of my biggest peeves of the PT. I think more time should have been used to show their friendship. A scene where they discuss Qui Gon could have helped.

 

Obi-Wan didn't fail Anakin, but he did make some mistakes. For one Obi-Wan should've said something the moment he noticed Anakin and Padme were falling in love. I think he just tried to ignore the signs. He also should've been more vigilant about not letting Anakin always seek out Palpatine.

In all though Obi-Wan didn't fail. It was Anakin who made the choice to turn to the Dark Side, to fall to Palpatine's manipulations. As a matter of fact, he failed Obi-Wan not to mention the rest of the Jedi. He became a Sith to protect his own interests, but didn't care for those he would hurt in doing so.

Obi-Wan was the best possible master for Anakin, Anakin just didn't learn to accept criticism and learn from it.

 

I don't think Obi-Wan failed Anakin any more than the Jedi Order did as a whole. I think he did the best he could. But I find it more interesting that Obi-Wan actually does blame himself. Anakin we expect to be volatile, to allow himself to feel things the Council would forbide. But we don't expect such things from Obi-Wan. But it happened, he got too attached to Anakin, ignored obvious warnings because it made his brother happy. It's very human. Obi-Wan was the best influence on Anakin's life, but like in any relationship, mistakes were made.

 

I am sure it really did not help that there was a war on, I think the order was too stretched to deal with Anakin.

Also, it is worth noting that Anakin was a Jedi Knight, he really was responcible for himself, at some point I think he became who he was, and that is really within his control. Kind of like how Dooku made a choice, but I dont blame Yoda. Just as I dont always blame the parents of people who I dont think are very moral or worthy, sometimes people need to just make a choice on how they are going to live their lives, and Anakin did.

 

Totally agree with u there.

Anakin failed himself more than he failed anyone else... with so much potencial he had he should have used that for better, and not for selfish reasons.

IMO Obi Wan saying he failed Anakin just showed Obi's character: he would rather think he failed Anakin as a teacher than think Anakin failed as a human and as his brother. I think it's normal for parents or mentors to analize where they could have gone wrong when the child/pupil goes "bad", thinking that maybe there was something they could have done to prevent it.

 

I think if anyone failed Ani, it was the Order as whole. I still cannot really understand why at the end of TPM Master Yoda allowed the fresh young rookie Jedi knight Obi-wan to even begin training Ani at all, it was obviously a job for Yoda himself.

When it became clear that Obi was going to train young Ani 'without the approval of council,' Yoda (or another Master) should have stepped up to the plate and taken sole charge of training the boy - as opposed to leaving it to an inexperienced Knight like Obi was at that point. Obi would've accepted this, Qui-Gonn would've accepted this, and Ani would've had a far wiser Master to learn from.

Don't get me wrong I really like Obi, I just don't think he was ready for such an important teaching job, a Master with more experience was needed, and the Order failed Ani and ultimately themselves by not making that so.

 

I agree with this.

You would think that the Jedi would not treat the possibilty of this boy being the chosen one so non-chalantly. Not only did they not even want him to be trained, they allowed him to be trained by a Knight who was just a Padawan a couple days earlier. It makes me wonder if the Jedi believed in the prophecy at all.

Yoda or Mace should've took responsibilty for training him especially when they see all of the harm that can come from Anakin's power if not directed properly.

And as someone said earlier, all the talk about being cautious about talking to politicians is all for nothing when they allow him to spend a lot of his free time with the most influencial politician there is. Not to mention the women who he so OBVIOUSLY is in love with who happens to be a politician herself.