PT Did Obi Wan's words in EP I create a gap in Anakin's heart and partly caused the duel in EP III?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In Rogue Planet Anakin does admit "My own mother didn't know what to do with me."

    We see Anakin lash out with the Force in that as well- but in a decidedly hostile situation, and he does try (and fail) to stop it.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Rogue Planet is almost as horrible in its portrayal of Anakin.

    And yes, Anakin kills a slaver in cold blood--kind of takes away from his first brush with the Dark Side with the Tusken slaughter, no? And the Tusken slaughter wasn't in cold blood, it was in a rage. His first cold-blooded kill was supposed to be in ROTS. That was kind of the point.

    And the whole "monster inside" portrayal is ridiculous and contrary to what we see in TPM. Again, Anakin becoming a monster in ROTS but with good inside him is the point, not Anakin just waiting eagerly to turn 23 and release his inner monster. If the latter were the case, what exactly would be the point of ROTJ?
    BoromirsFan likes this.
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Krayn was armed and attacking him at the time (at least in the Jedi Quest comic)

    Anakin kills a person in Outbound Flight as well:

    (They're searching for a kidnapped Padawan- Anakin's just found her and her kidnappers)
    p116:
    He found Anakin in one of the inner rooms, standing over Lorana's limp form, his lightsaber held in guard position toward a pair of Brolfi cowering in the corner. A third Brolfi lay motionlessly on the floor, the remains of a blaster beside him. "Master," Anakin said, clearly trying to sound casual but not entirely succeeding. "I found her."

    p117:
    "Do they need more persuasion, Master?" Anakin asked, letting his voice harden.
    Obi-Wan suppressed a smile. In his experience, threats from fourteen-year-olds were seldom very convincing.
    His eyes dropped to the dead Brolf on the floor. On second thought, in this case maybe they were.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Don't even get me started on the ultimate Thrawn wet dream Outbound Flight.

    Watson is by far the worst though.
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Anakin being two-natured. As a good guy, he has an "inner monster". As a villain, he has an inner good guy.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I disagree. I saw absolutely no "inner monster" in TPM. I think the "inner monster" developed in his late teens at the earliest, maybe during TCW.

    And I think the authors in question were twisting themselves into pretzels trying to make Anakin as Vader-like as possible, which to me misses the point of his becoming Vader.
  7. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the TPM novel he does attack another kid who said he cheated to win the race- I think that was actually filmed, but cut.

    In ESB Yoda says of Luke "Much anger in him- like his father"
  8. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    I think it's important to remember that profic authors each have their own interpretation of characters, just as readers/viewers do. When it comes down to it, movie canon always trumps EU canon.

    As for the tendency to blame Obi-Wan for Anakin's fall - or to blame Anakin himself - it all seems a bit simplistic. There were many factors leading to it, some of them mistakes by Obi or Anakin (who, after all were both human and fallible), some of them deliberate manipulations by Palpatine, and some of them unfortunate events that were out of anyone's control. In the end, laying blame is a pointless activity, especially as GL apparently intended a wider view for Star Wars - the age-old struggle between good and evil, which predates any of the characters.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  9. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    This is part of the reason why I don't read EU anymore. To me, it's simply too much like fan fiction. Not that there's anything wrong with fanfiction, but I can get it for free online (and much of what I read is better written than the official releases anyway). But, basically, I just can't consider EU canon because it's written by fans of the films. The only difference between them and any of us is that they get paid. ;) Still, though, there's too many wildly diverging opinions on characters to make it all that "canon" for me, personally. Even the novelizations run into this issue. So it kind of becomes a game where you can cherry pick positive portrayals of your favorite character by sympathetic authors. This is also one of the reasons I am a bit hesitant about Episode VII -- it's going to be directed by a fan and I don't know that he'll be able to restrain himself.
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Early on, it had to be checked by Lucas- with him allowing some things and disallowing others.

    The Noghri were originally called Sith. C'baoth was originally an Obi-Wan clone. Lucas disallowed both of those but accepted the changes.
  11. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Which is exactly what I do ;) I think it's necessary to take the EU with a pinch of salt and enjoy it for what it is, rather than holding it up as some kind of 'gospel' that 'proves' one opinion or another. It's great to discuss all this stuff and can be a lot of fun, but it's just what comes out of the authors' heads. Hmm, I may be treading close to heresy here - next I'll be suggesting that Star Wars is only a made-up story! :eek:
  12. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I've always wondered just how much Lucas really cared about and looked into the EU, though. Not that that denies its canonicity or anything, but he seems rather disinterested in it to me.

    Take the ROTS novelization, which Lucas supposedly line-edited, as an example. There's blatant contradictions with the films -- such as how Padmé was the youngest Queen elected to Naboo (she wasn't according to the AOTC film) or the fact that the person Padmé wanted to inform about the Rebellion was Anakin in the films rather than Obi-Wan in the book.

    I don't know. I think Lucas is happy to let EU authors do their thing to keep Star Wars alive, but I don't find him to be particularly invested in it. And neither am I, to be honest, so I suppose I'm biased. :p

    I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't read the EU. On the contrary, if you enjoy it, I'd see no reason not to. But, for me, it makes understanding/discussing the characters entirely too confusing because some authors have a tendency to, shall we say, "derail" their personalities. So if you want to prove that a character had a particular opinion or personality trait, it almost becomes impossible since some authors will be sympathetic while others won't.

    Plus, to be honest, I guess I legitimately don't see why the interpretation of the EU authors should hold any more water than a fanfic that I or you wrote.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Jan 29, 2013
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Possibly because Lucasfilm Licencing doesn't get any money of a fanfic ;)
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  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Anakin was pretty pissed off by the time of AOTC and even more so by the time of ROTS. I'm not sure how that line of Yoda's proves that Anakin was the type of child who would pull wings off the GFFA equivalent of dragonflies.

    As far as TPM--in that scene, Greedo doesn't "say he cheated to win the race," he harassed him over and over again about it while Anakin was on his way home, arguing repeatedly that "no slave could win without cheating", until Anakin punched him out. I didn't blame Anakin for it really. Greedo was a bully, and there were no "it gets better" videos on Tatooine. If Jude Watson wrote that scene, she'd have Greedo minding his own business and Anakin knocking the **** out of him while mumbling something about not liking little green kids.

    Of course they do, however, I am of the opinion that if you are a professional writer getting paid to write in a particular universe and there is a particular character against (or for) whom you have such a bias that you could not possibly write him or her fairly, you need to recuse yourself from writing that character at all.

    I can excuse blatant character bias in fan fic. Hell, I'm probably guilty of it, although I try not to be. Nobody is getting paid to write fan fic and I have been in that universe long enough to know the favorite characters of certain authors, and also which authors will write characters fairly and which ones won't.

    No excuse for it in pro fic, and reading such posts in Lit as "Anakin was dark early! He killed Krayn, that's proof!" makes my hair stand on end.

    I'm an EU fan but I feel the need to separate the good from the crap.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jan 29, 2013
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  15. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    Actually Valairy I meant that Obi-Wan did eventually understand Qui-Gon's actions. Wrong wording on my part. I just can't see a mature Obi-Wan dumping Anakin.

    He may have been more on the council's side in TPM, but he WAS trained by Qui-Gon. Eventually things would have kicked in.
  16. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    I think the line created a sublimated sense of dread and unease in Anakin.

    Consider this other line from TPM -- spoken by none other than Anakin:

    "I wouldn't have lasted this long if I wasn't so good at building things."

    Now, when Obi-Wan says that THE ENTIRE JEDI COUNCIL senses that Anakin is "dangerous", he's essentially calling Anakin fractious: a destroyer, not a builder.

    Implicitly, Anakin had to see himself as a problem -- through his own (distorted) impression of the Jedi Council's eyes -- after that. He even says as much to Qui-Gon: "Qui-Gon, sir, I don't want to be a problem." Obi-Wan's slight would always be with him.
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