1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

CT Did Owen and Beru know rhe full story of Anakin becomeing Vader ?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by PadawanGussin, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Sep 6, 2017
    When bringing the infant Luke to live with them, Did Obi Wan share the full version of the fall of Anakin with Owen and Beru ?

    And was this why Own was so afraid of Luke leaving, not to protect Luke, but to protect rhe galaxy from what Luke could become ?
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    In the newcanon Marvel SW comics, in an argument with Obi-Wan, Owen snaps "Haven't you killed enough Skywalkers already?"

    This may be a hint that (at the time) Obi-Wan believed he had killed Anakin on Mustafar for joining the Sith, and told Owen so - with this being the reason Owen doesn't want Luke anywhere near him.
  3. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jan 10, 2015
    In the EU/Legends, Vader personally ordered the stormtroopers to execute via hologram to execute Owen and Beru. He considered Owen's late father, Cliegg, and Owen and Beru weak for their failure to save Shmi from the Tusken Raiders. I'm pretty sure that Owen and Beru knew that Anakin was Vader. Obi-Wan probably told Beru when he handed Luke over to her. The way I see it, Beru always had confidence that Luke would remain a good person. But Owen didn't understand the Jedi and Sith. As such, he feared that Luke could go down his father's path. It's a legitimate concern, but he was overprotective in the end. Luke had his own choices to make.

    Additionally, it's notable that Luke was not concerned by his grief after Owen and Beru were killed. He allowed it to fuel his commitment to the Rebellion, much like Leia allowed the loss of Alderaan and her foster father to motivate her.
    Sara_Kenobi likes this.
  4. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

    Oct 30, 2015
    Judging by the movie alone, I doubt it. The EU may have made up any number of stories later, but that's not really canon. Owen may have had some idea what happened to Anakin but I don't think he ever got all the details.
    If he were REALLY that afraid of what Luke might become then why not just kill him, make him have some kind of "accident"? No, I think he didn't care much for the greater universe, really just wanted Luke around to do farm work for free.
    Lt. Hija likes this.
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    "He has too much of his father in him"
    "That's what I'm afraid of"

    has extra resonance after the PT.

    Yes, the movie doesn't say outright that "Obi-Wan told Owen about Vader's fall" but I can see why newcanon authors might extrapolate it.
    Jedi Knight Fett and Sarge like this.
  6. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

    Mar 5, 2006
    I would think not. At this point Obi Wan thinks Anakin dead and probably went with some derivation of that narrative. At that point there is no knowledge of Darth Vader to spin the other version of the tale. Even if he did, that would have been an awkward conversation "Yeah, that big black masked death bringer....this is his kid. Later!"

    I think this comes from a place of wanting to protect him. The dialogue where Owen/Beru relate how much of his father he has in him speaks toward adventure and wanderlust not psychopathy or even a hint of asthma at that point :)

    There are sources which tell us they may have found out later though
    DarthZ07 likes this.
  7. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 4, 2012
    I think it very unlikely that Owen and Beru knew the full story.

    First, since since secrecy was vital to Obi-Wan and Yoda and they did not want Luke to learn ahead of time.
    If Owen or Beru slipped up or just flat out told Luke, that work is gone.
    Second, would they accept Luke if they are told that his father is an evil monster and the second most powerful person in the empire and that he might come looking for his son. That might just make them go "Take this spawn of Evil away from us!"
    Third, Obi-Wan did not know them, he had never met either of them. So why would he so quickly trust them with the very sensitive truth about Vader or risk that they turn him down?
    Lastly, what reason would Obi-Wan have for telling them this?
    We know that he is not above lying if it suits his needs. And it would serve no purpose for them to know the truth.
    They might just get scared or treat Luke like a walking time bomb. Neither of which is in Obi-Wans interest.

    Also, while one can look at Owen's reaction as him thinking that Luke could be like Vader, Beru's expression does not fit.
    She sort of smiles when talking about Luke's father. That does not fit her thinking about an evil monster.

    So no, Owen and Beru does not know the truth.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  8. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    May 27, 1999
    As I've posted elsewhere, I figure Kenobi just told them, "Ani and Padme are dead. Luke is their son. Please look after him. I'll be around, keeping an eye on him." There was no need to go into the gory details.
    As for Owen's, "That's what I'm afraid of," he's more likely referring to Luke being reckless and getting involved in things that weren't any of his business, just like Ani did. Owen and Beru wanted Luke to have a normal & safe life, not following old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade. And Owen would not want Kenobi to show up one day and say, "OK, it's time for him to go fight the bad guys."
  9. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Feb 18, 2014
    Seeing as how they react to certain things and what has been said in the new canon. I would say no they know that he became a Sith Lord.
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    I could go with Owen knowing but not Beru. Owen's been consistently portrayed as very angry at Ben, so far.
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  11. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 20, 2005
    I would imagine that Obi-Wan would know if Anakin had died, he had a strong connection to him and would have felt it. I'd say that he definitely would have told them, he had to make sure that they knew the importance of keeping him a secret.
  12. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 4, 2012
    Again why?
    As I've said, it was vital to keep Luke in the dark about his father until he was ready. And yet Obi-Wan tells two people he has never met in the hope that they NEVER slip up or mentions it to Luke?

    It would be enough to say that Luke is the child of Anakin, a Jedi and the empire is hunting down every last Jedi, down to the smallest child. And if they find him, they will kill him.

    Also, Luke was allowed to keep his father's last name, hardly trying very hard to keep him a secret is it?
    Luke had planned to apply to the academy and say he did. So very gifted pilot from Tatooine and has the last name Skywalker. If Vader saw that, he could very likely get curious.

    Beru did not seem at all as someone that thought of Luke's father as an evil monster.
    Owen more looked like some that did not want Luke to end like his father, dead from going off and looking for adventure. Not becoming an evil monster.

    Bottom-line, Obi-Wan has no reason to tell them and plenty of reasons not to.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
  13. Matt_201

    Matt_201 Jedi Master

    Apr 21, 2009
    This is a very hard question to answer because obviously when ANH first came out, Vader and Anakin were still two different characters, and so any "evidence" from the film itself is inherently unreliable.

    Based off the relationships of all the characters in the PT, I would say Obi-Wan wouldn't have told them the whole truth, only that Anakin was dead (which, of course, is "true" from a certain point of view). Hell, the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire would have changed absolutely nothing on Tatooine and the fall of the Jedi Order at the hands of Anakin Skywalker would have been meaningless to Owen and Beru.
  14. Rickleo123

    Rickleo123 Jedi Knight star 3

    May 20, 2016
    The utter beauty of that line in ANH is that it pays off sooooo well with the Vader/Father reveal in ESB. There is no doubt in my mind that the idea was in the back of Lucas' head from the early beginning or at least in his subconscious just waiting to percolate out. He was a fervent reader of Joseph Campbell at that point so I could see him drawing on the mythic tales of father/sons even in ANH.
  15. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 1, 2012
    Obi Wan's integrity/honesty would be one reason to tell them. Beru and Owen should not be taking a kid unless they know what happened to his parents.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  16. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Aug 9, 2004
    That reminds me, has the new canon explained yet when Obi-Wan first learnt Vader was alive and well? Or is that something they're saving for the Obi-Wan film? I believe in the old canon it was the Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader novel that explained it.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Doompup likes this.
  17. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 4, 2012
    Except Obi-Wan is shown to not have any problems with lying when it suits his purpose.
    Where was his integrity/honesty with Luke?
    And as I said, it was vital that Luke be kept in the dark until they deemed him ready, so why gamble with that by telling two people that Obi-Wan does not know?

    And Padme was dead and Obi-Wan likely assumed Anakin was as well. So say that they are dead, killed by the empire.
    Saying that Anakin turned evil and Obi-Wan killed/tried to kill him, that is not likely to increase the chances that Owen and Beru accept Luke.
    Again, Obi-Wan has never met them before.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 24, 2005
    Vimes is correct. Let’s apply a little Occam’s Razor here.

    Why would Obi-Wan tell them everything and risk:
    • Them shunning a helpless baby due to his dad being the second most evil man in the galaxy. People do tend to overreact and treat children as if they were their parents. “Your daddy did this to me. I hate him and by extension you. Now suffer because you totally deserve it, and you’re weak enough for me to exploit.” And that’s if the dad were just kind of a jerk to the person in question. We’re talking about the son of the second most evil man in the galaxy. The Lars would have to be very understanding indeed to not just tell Obi-Wan to take Baby!Luke and properly **** off.

    • Owen and Beru accidentally spilling it to Luke. “My father was a Jedi? HE DID WHAT!?!” This would have untold, and possibly dangerous consequences — something Obi-Wan didn’t want.

    Therefore, all he had to say was, “I’m afraid Anakin and Padmé were killed by the Empire. This is their son, please look after him.” Owen could still be mad at the Jedi — after all he would have had to know Shmi’s story and have heard of Anakin. He was there when Anakin tried and failed to save Shmi. Then here comes Obi-Wan saying Anakin is dead.

    “Haven’t you killed enough Skywalkers already!?” indeed. As far as he’s concerned, the Jedi killed Shmi, killed Anakin, and might possibly kill Luke if they come near him.

    The only real question is why they didn’t hide Luke’s last name. As mentioned above, if he joined the Imperial Academy, it’d only be a matter of time before Vader paid him a visit, wondering why there’s another skilled, gifted pilot named Skywalker who hails from Tatooine.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  19. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    Why would he blame the Jedi for Shmi's death? His dad was the one who freed her, married her, and chose to dwell with her on a farm that was close enough to the Tusken's to be raided by them.

    Anakin "failing to save Shmi" after she'd been with the Tuskens for a month, is not exactly something Anakin can be blamed for. And unless he overheard some ranting from Anakin about how "If the Jedi had just let me go when I first had the vision she'd still be alive" - I can't see why Owen would have reason to "pass the blame upward".
  20. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    May 1, 2014
    Take this line in isolation in 1977 and it intrigues me as to what they meant. What did Lucas have in mind for Owen to say that about Lukes father?
  21. Darth Dnej

    Darth Dnej Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 27, 2013
    "Beru Whitesun Lars" from A Certain Point of View seems to indicate Beru knew. At the very least she knew Anakin did awful things. I think Beru and Owen knew part of the truth.
  22. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 4, 2012
    Well some of this is conjecture but here goes:

    1) Luke calls them Aunt and Uncle, if we assume that this is correct and he was a blood relative to one of them.
    Then either Owen was the brother of Luke's father or Beru was the sister of Luke's father.
    Given that Obi-wan only mentions Owen when he talks about Luke's father, the former is a bit more likely.
    But the problem there is different last name.
    There is a possibility that Owen or Beru are related to Luke's mother but she is never mentioned at all in the film so that is unlikely.
    And Luke's father being the half-brother to Owen or Beru is also possible.

    2) Based on what Owen and Berus says, they both knew Anakin and well enough to recognize his traits in Luke. So it is likely that they knew him when he was around Luke's age.

    3) Obi-Wan mentions Owen quite a bit, about him not sharing Luke's fathers ideals and how he should "have stayed here" and "not gotten involved" etc.

    Based on this, it is quite possible that Anakin lived on Tatooine, with Owen and Beru. Owen and Beru were perhaps married and Anakin was the younger brother, not having left home yet.
    Obi-Wan comes along and Anakin leaves with him, off to adventure or "a foolish crusade."
    This ultimately leads to his death.

    Since Luke's mother is never spoken off, it is likely that she was also dead and Owen and Beru had to take care of Luke. They apparently did not have any children of their own.
    One could wonder why Luke never asks Obi-Wan about his mother if he knew as little about her as about his father.

    What Owen means is just this, Anakin had ideals and wanted to get involved and do something and this lead to his death. By following Obi-Wan. Hence why he does not want Obi-Wan around Luke.
    He sees the same traits in Luke but does not want Luke to go off chasing adventure and getting himself killed like his father did.
    Part of it is a bit selfish, he needs another hand on the farm. But I also think he does care about Luke and does not want him to get himself killed doing something foolish.

    So it likely wasn't anything ominous, Owen simply did not want Luke getting himself killed looking for adventure or involving himself in things that did not concern him.

    The responsible elder brother is a fairly common archetype. The one that has to look after the younger brother, take care of things, stay home etc.
    The younger brother could be more reckless, adventurous, more willing to leave home and so on.
    It is also not uncommon for the elder brother to at times feel jealous of the younger brother's achievements.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
    Doompup, Sith Lord 2015 and AndyLGR like this.
  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012
    Keep in mind that it's Beru's perspective after her death. Still, it may have alluded to her knowing in life.
    Jedi Knight Fett and Darth Dnej like this.