Did Padme love Anakin?

She says, "regardless of how we feel about each other." Anakin interjects, "Then you do feel something." And she ignores him, going on about, "I will not let you give up your future for me..." Not exactly resounding of undying love.

Those lines said by Padme are her trying to dena(sp) her love. No one would say "regardless of how we feel about each other." Onless they had feelings for the person. Padme has feelings for Anakin. But she can not bring herself to letting those feelings out.

 

Alright; another point of view. According to Jesus, "No greater love is there than to lay down one's life for a friend." I think that Padme does love Anakin in this respect. She loves him enough to give up her life (future) to him (to keep him from the darkness that she saw in the Lars homestead). This is selfless love of compassion, which we know is a strong part of her character. Still, it's not a love that is romantic in nature.

Padme's love is in direct contrast to Anakin's love, which is ideal, hyper-romantic, caring nothing for gravity or consequence.

Padme's the realist while Anakin's living in this dream world that he has been cultivating since he was ten. But Padme can't save him, and therein lies the ultimate tragidy. She gives up everything to help him, and in the end it's all useless (but for their children, of course).

Their wedding... They're alone, but for the droids, by this point. But there're no smiles, there's no glee, or ecstacy... they're both very stoic. This seems like duty; it's shrieking of anti-climax and steeped in irony. It's foreboding that their love is doomed--In fairy tales, doesn't true love conquer all?--because it was entered into for the wrong reasons.

 

Anakin was 19 and it was the first time he had been in love--of course he was acting that way.

And I don't think their marriage was entered into for the wrong reasons. If it were, then it would have gone sour even if Palpatine hadn't corrupted Anakin--and I don't think that would have happened. I think if Anakin had stayed on the Light Side and there had been no Palps and no war, they would have lived "happily ever after".

 

RebelScum77 - I understand your point, and I do agree with you to a certain extent. Of course they do fall in love because that is what George Lucas intended. However, I find the execution of the love story that makes it hard for me to see it as GL intended.

Anakin looks *supremely* sexy, brooding, and confident when he speeds away to find his mother. - That's when Padme realizes that she wants to be on the receiving end of all that passion.

Well, my whole argument falls apart with that, classixboy. Anakin is rather ... in that scene.

 

I fail to see how their relationship could end "happily ever after." Padme hit it on the head: "We'd be living a lie, one we couldn't keep even if we wanted to." Anakin agrees that such a relationship would "destroy" them, and it seems like he's right. Anakin's rejected the Order by marrying Padme, and he can't keep that secret... even if he hadn't turned to the Dark Side, he still would have either been expelled from the Order or else been living this lie that he is something that he isn't. This relationship is doomed from the inception.

 

Jedi_Monk... man, you have some warped ideas about love.

Alright; another point of view. According to Jesus, "No greater love is there than to lay down one's life for a friend." I think that Padme does love Anakin in this respect.

As do I, but this is the same type of love between Anakin and Obi-Wan. But there is far more to Ani/Padme than this. And for that matter the love been Obi/Ani is more complicated as well.

She loves him enough to give up her life (future) to him (to keep him from the darkness that she saw in the Lars homestead). This is selfless love of compassion, which we know is a strong part of her character. Still, it's not a love that is romantic in nature. Padme's love is in direct contrast to Anakin's love, which is ideal, hyper-romantic, caring nothing for gravity or consequence.

Say what? You're saying that Padme only stays with him to keep him from flipping out the Dark Side? How is that possibly "realistic" (as you say below). Since when is marrying someone out of pity or danger realistic? Not a romantic love? So I guess all the kissing and her eventual pregnancy were just part of the job?? Was she lying when she said she "truly, deeply" loved him? And there love isn't at ALL contrasting. They are very different people, but have very similar experiences. Yes, Anakin is impatient and idealistic and romantic. But so is Padme, but the characteristics manifest themselves in slightly different ways. She is just as stubborn, just as idealistic and just as romantic (hello! her wardrobe alone). They both never really had a childhood (a major issue in both), they have dangerous jobs, neither has ever been in love and they don't know how to deal with it, but both were desperately searching for someone even if they didn't really know it.

Padme's the realist while Anakin's living in this dream world that he has been cultivating since he was ten. But Padme can't save him, and therein lies the ultimate tragidy. She gives up everything to help him, and in the end it's all useless (but for their children, of course).

This only supports the idea that they are really in love. The stakes wouldn't be very high if there was only some weak notion of love for duties sake. Her trying to "save" him would lose a huge amount of impact, and it would deadened the tragedy. Yes this is a TRAGEDY, it's supposed to be as tragic as possible. What happens to her is very sad. What happens to Anakin is also very sad. But they both represent what could happen so easily to any one of us if the circumstances were right.

Their wedding... They're alone, but for the droids, by this point. But there're no smiles, there's no glee, or ecstacy... they're both very stoic. This seems like duty; it's shrieking of anti-climax and steeped in irony. It's foreboding that their love is doomed--In fairy tales, doesn't true love conquer all?--because it was entered into for the wrong reasons.

Ok.. we saw about 2 minutes of their wedding, with no dialog. How can you possibly say they aren't happy? Stoic? Did you see the subtle grin on Anakin's face? And again, this is NOT real life. This is foreshadowing. They are getting married, in secret, when it's forbidden, at the beginning of a war. Of course, it's not all sunshine and roses. Why would they do it had they not felt a desperate need to be together? And yes their love is doomed from the start... as all such tragic love stories are... as all tragic heros are. This is no fairy tale. This is real, brutal, tragic love.

But their love isn't the disease, it's a cold, rainy day that doesn't help. The disease is Palpatine. I doubt Padme could have turned him to the Dark Side all by her lonesome. As I doubt Anakin would have turned if Palpsidious not been there, Padme or no.

 

Anakin's rejected the Order by marrying Padme, and he can't keep that secret... even if he hadn't turned to the Dark Side, he still would have either been expelled from the Order or else been living this lie that he is something that he isn't. This relationship is doomed from the inception.

His relationship with the Order is doomed, but not his relationship with Padme, which IMHO is stronger and more important. He wanted to be a Jedi when he was a kid and didn't know what it was about. He obviously doesn't much like being one once he becomes one. I'm not sure why he doesn't resign myself, other than he's got Palps feeding him crap about being the most powerful of all Jedi.

 

Please stop bringing up hypotheticals.

"What if Palpatine wasn't around?" ...

"What if everything in the world was good?!"

This doesn't help the conversation at all. In fact, it just distracts.

We have a text in front of us: deal with it. Explore the ambiguities.

 

We can also tell by Padmes action that she loves Anakin. "What..What did you say?" Yeah amazing enough-LUCAS SHOWS AND NOT TELLS you Padme loves Anakin.

After he makes his fireside confession- she never puts him down, or puts herself above him again.
When she learns that Anakin has been having nightmares- she encourages and GOES WITH HIM to Tatoonie. She leaves the saftey of Naboo on a quest to a planet that holds no safety for her.

After the death of his mother and his shocking confession- She CONSOLES HIM. Dosent' run away, doesn't lecture him. Padme attempts see him through his pain.

And After they find out Obi-wan is captured- SHE GOES INTO THE LIONS DEN for anakin. Thats right. With Anakin hampered by Jedi mandate-Padme steers hers ship right to the very people she suspects are trying to kill her.

Damn, I need a woman like that.


Yes, it is true that Anakin loves Padme and Padme loves Anakin. Of that there cannot be any doubt. Based on the script alone-the words are there to either cover up there love (Padme) or let it all out in a torrent of emotion (Anakin).

But Lucas main contention is this: Anakin doesn't know how to let go. He doesn't know how to love healthy. It is not Anakins hate that turns to the dark side- but his LOVE. And this doesn't mean that Amidalia will be killed by Anakin. All it means, is when the time comes for them to seperate-he will NOT be able to let go.

I do not think Anakin and Padme will ever stop loving each other. Anyone who has been truelly in love ever stop loving them. You just have to let the person go, weather the person was taken away or left voulunarily from you.

 

classixboy

I was indeed TRYING to be ironic... I took the example of Romeo and Juliet on purpose. It is always considered as the ultimate LOVE story. I read something in a book once about Romeo's secret desire of suicide that had nothing to do with Juliet's faked death. While I found it interesting, I don't buy it.

Anakin and Padme needed someone at that time of their lives, sure. But they found the perfect complement in one another. And that is love. You don't explain it rationally. How would you define love? Is it when you put his or her interests above yours? But here that's exactly what I see. Anakin does that! After the fireplace confession, he backs down. And she puts his interests before hers. She wants to be selfish and have a relationship with him, but she hides her emotions for HIM, for his Jedi career.

And like it was pointed out, who followed him to Tatooine although she was in danger? She did that because he was in pain. And that's not compassion in that moment. She's in LOVE with him...

 

I absolutley 100% GET the love story. I think it's fantastic. Brilliantly written and brilliantly acted.

The people who are saying Padme didn't love Anakin are NOT saying that the love story doesn't work. We're saying it does work and it can be interperated in many ways and on many different levels.

That's a compliment to Lucas and Hales for their writing and to Portman and Christensen for their portrayl of these characters.

The love story in AOTC has an incredible depth to it.

This isn't some teenybopper 2d romance story you find in a Freddy Prinze Jnr movie. This actually makes you think.

Are they in love? Why are they in love? When did they fall in love? Is it just lust? Infatuation? Escapism?

It's superb.

Just because I think Anakin was more in lust than love doesn't mean I think the love story doesn't work.

 

Anakin used his force powers to make her love him.

Padme: "What if two people don't love eachother?"
Anakin: "Then they should be made to!"

There's proof right there.

 

Anakin used his force powers to make her love him.

Padme: "What if two people don't love eachother?"
Anakin: "Then they should be made to!"

There's proof right there.

Yeah sure. You just took Padme's line and reworded it.

 

You got me. I re-worded it.

That's not the point.

If Anakin feels that it's okay to make/force people to agree, then maybe he feels it's okay to make somebody love him. He probably justifies it by thinking that it's in her best interest because he's such a great guy.

Anakin may have grown up but he's still incredibly immature. There are countless instances of this throughout the movie. He probably would not have gone to the Dark Side if he'd been more mature.

 

If Anakin feels that it's okay to make/force people to agree, then maybe he feels it's okay to make somebody love him. He probably justifies it by thinking that it's in her best interest because he's such a great guy.

To bad it is not showen any where in the movie of him doing that. He never once forces Padme to do anything.

 

I don't know about you but I see him forcing a lot of people to do lots of things in Eps IV-VI.

He evn says people should be made to agree in AOTC. I don't think that was just supposed to be a joke.

 

He even says people should be made to agree in AOTC. I don't think that was just supposed to be a joke.

Give me one scene then where he forced Padme to do something.

Because in ever scene that they are in he wait for her to give the ok. There is only one scene where he trys to take command. But it goes right back to her. He even ask what he could do for Padme.

So he forced her to do nothing.

I don't know about you but I see him forcing a lot of people to do lots of things in Eps IV-VI.

Who did he force around in ANH? Tarken was in control not Vader. How about ROTJ? Palpatine was in control there to. The only time Vader/Anakin was ever really in control of any thing was TESB. But even then Palpatine was still giving him orders.

 

Anakin had what could be best described as a major infatuation with the only good looking woman he had ever met. And who knwos what Padme thought she was doing during all of this. I think the relationship was just written in because we had to see how Luke and Leia's parents got together. For better or for worse.

 

AlecGuinnessBeer:

I was hoping you were kidding. Please tell me you don't really believe that.

I seem to recall Anakin telling Padme that Jedi mind tricks would not work on her.

 

I also do not think that the 'they should be made to agree' line was supposed to be a joke. I saw it as a subtle foreshadowing of his character transformation into Darth Vader. But I don't think Anakin would go as far as to force Padme to love him. For one, I don't think it would work on her, and I think he feels that he wouldn't need to.

 

Of course "they should be made to agree" is foreshadowing... and it's not even subtle, it's blatant.... it's one of the most militant things he says in the whole movie. But it is in no way related to Padme. The idea of Anakin "making" Padme do anything or feel anything toward him is ludicrous.

 

The idea of Anakin "making" Padme do anything or feel anything toward him is ludicrous.

Perhaps at the start of their relationship, which is what I was considering for this discussion. I wonder if, as Anakin grows more and more toward the dark side, whether that will hold true. You're right, his statement during the picnic is one of the most militant things he says, and Padme also states her own convictions, which immediately places her opposite future-Anakin philosophically, and perhaps signals how doomed their relationship is from the outset. When Anakin begins to act in agreement with the dictatorial regime - which of course Padme won't believe in - he would probably struggle to bring her to his side. I would assume at this point, when she realizes the road Anakin is taking, that Padme would want to leave him. Anakin is passionate and impatient, believing the evil he'll succumb to is for the good of the world, and perhaps he might begin to believe that her love for him is meant to be as well. If at any time she would revoke her love for him, Anakin might very well try to force her to stay with him.

edit: spelling

 

Honestly? No, I don't believe he forced Padme to love him. I really just threw it out there for discussion.

However, isn't it possible that sub-conciously he nudged her in that direction? That he wanted her so bad he may have seduced her with the force without even knowing he was doing it? I'm not saying that's the case but just something to think about.

Subconciously using force powers in an unethical way could easily lead to doing it overtly.

On the other topic that Vader didn't fore anyone to do anything: Let's see, he helped hunt down and destroy all the Jedi. I'd say that was some mighty forceful pursuasion to make it clear the Emperor was now the boss. He also racked up an impressive body count trying to force people to bend to his will: Rebel Trooper on Tantive, Tagge (almost), Obi-Wan, Ozzel, Every citizen of Alderaan (okay that was Tarkin that gave the order, but who obediently obeyed him and happily let it happen?) He obviously had no probelem forcing people to succumb to his will or kill them if they didn't. Torturing Leia and Han also comes to mind. How is that not forcing people to do soemthing they don't want to do? Do you honestly think Vader's actions in the OT were done through the goodness of his heart?! You need to open your eyes.

 

However, isn't it possible that sub-conciously he nudged her in that direction? That he wanted her so bad he may have seduced her with the force without even knowing he was doing it?

Nope you can't sub-conciously not know you used the force. On top of that when Padme did come out and say she loved him. He him self asked to make sure that she really wanted that.

On the other topic that Vader didn't fore anyone to do anything: Let's see, he helped hunt down and destroy all the Jedi.

A long with how many others?

Ozzel

He had it coming. What he did was really dumb. He put them into a point less fight.

Every citizen of Alderaan (okay that was Tarkin that gave the order, but who obediently obeyed him and happily let it happen?)

Vader did not have a choice in the matter. He was not in command. Same with ever one else in the room. Vader had to obey ever thing Tarkin said.

 

The last time I checked, Vader was a villain in the original trilogy. He's scary because of the things he does. He kills people if they don't agree with him. Han has every right to be terrified of Vader. Surviving Jedi Knights have every right to fear Vader; he helped murder them all. Vader is a powerful person and feared in his own right. The comments in defense of him make Vader out to be a victim or something, which is definitely not how he's protrayed in the OT.