PT Did Palpatine Even Use/Need The Force To Conquer the Galaxy?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by GeneralCeel, Feb 16, 2012.

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  1. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Again. The total number of midi-chlorians present in the body do not matter. A midi-chlorian count is the amount of midi-chlorians in each cell. Pre-Mustafar and post-Mustafar Anakin still have over 20000 midis per cell. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.
  2. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    It's not that I do not "understand", it's that I do not agree with your conclusion. What happened to the midichlorians that were in the limbs that Anakin lost? They obviously are not a part of Anakin's body any more. If those midichlorians are gone, because they are obviously not in Anakin's body any more, then it seems to me perfectly logical that Anakin simply has fewer midichlorians in his body, even if the concentration per cell remains the same. It is perfectly logical to me, and AFAIK, Lucas has never said it is otherwise. But I am not trying to convince you, so if you don't think this is a perfectly logical conclusion, then please, let us simply agree to disagree, already. ;)
  3. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Yes, we can agree that Anakin has fewer total midi-chlorians in his body post-mutilation. But that does not in any way affect his Force abilities. The only thing that matters is how many midis he has in each cell.
  4. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    So that is how you interpreted it? Did you draw upon any additional official information to inform your opinion? I can totally respect that this is your opinion, I just don't agree with that at all. Sorry, but it seems very clear to me that it would have to affect his Force abilities in a major way. He would never have been as strong in the Force if it hadn't been for the midichlorians. Less midichlorians... ;)
  5. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Anakin is weaker due to the suit and all his emotional issues (although he uses the latter to his advantage once he falls deeper into the dark side in the ensuing years).

    I don't know where you're getting the idea that the total number of midis in a body make a difference when it comes to Force abilities, but you are completely wrong. The only thing that matters is how many midis there are per cell. I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It is a logical conclusion, but it is also a strawman, because no one believes otherwise.
  7. CaptainGiladPellaeon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2009
    star 1
    Some people claim that Lucas cheapened or trivialized the concept of the Force with the midichlorians. I never agreed. The Force has always been spiritual mythology wrapped in sci-fi terminology. To me, the idea of midichlorians doesn't de-mystify the Force any more than calling it an "energy field."

    However, the midichlorians would de-mystify and trivialize the Force (for me) if they were too clearly defined and quantified. I think Lucas was wise to give us only a few cryptic references to the midichlorians, leaving exactly what they are and how they relate to the Force completely open to individual interpretation. I certainly will never accept that midichlorians are so easily quantifiable and that their relationship to Force power is so easily quantifiable that you can reduce someone's power in the Force by cutting off one of his or her members. To me, that goes against the very spirit of the Force as established in the original movies. The Force was supposed to be above and beyond (if related to) the physical world. Vader pointed out that its power dwarfed that of a moon-sized super weapon. Yoda said that "size matters not" when considering the Force. He urged Luke not to let "crude matter" frame his conception of the Force or of his own identity in connection with the Force. It's serendipitous in the context of this discussion that when Yoda dismissed the importance of "crude matter" to Force power, he pinched one of Luke's limbs as his example of the former.
  8. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    OMG... some people have NO sense of humor... :p

    ;)
  9. Glymphid_Warlord Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2008
    star 2
    If Palpatine didn't use the Force, how would he have defeated Mace & friends? If Palpatine didn't use the Force, how would he have "foreseen" all the things he did? And if he wasn't Force-sensitive, he would have been a frail old man who wouldn't have stood a chance in battle against Mace & friends, as well as Yoda. So he "needed" the Force. The answer to this question is pretty obvious, IMO...
  10. Glymphid_Warlord Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2008
    star 2
  11. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I agree. He needed the Force to read and influence minds to his benefit, especially if wanted to change laws and such to his liking. But I'm sure the power of Force persuasion is limited when he has to control so many minds, especially since there were so many senators that he needed to side with him, hence the reason for the phantom invasion on Naboo and the sympathy vote he hoped to get to get himself elected.
  12. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    One of these does not follow from the other. We can have a quantifiable relationship between midichlorians and Force potential without assuming you can reduce someone's Force power by cutting off one of their members. If you cut off one of a person's members, that person has the same midichlorian count that they had before.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 12, 2012
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