Did Palpatine foresee ALL of this?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by JBRO13, May 28, 2004.

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  1. JBRO13 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2003
    star 3
    Obviously Palps had quite a good amount of foresight, but, did he know that Maul would die? Was the Queen's ship being damaged, while not completely being destroyed thanks to R2, and subsequently, Qui-Gon's discovery of Anakin and his eventual death all planned out? Did Palpatine tell Maul not to attack Qui-Gon on Tatooine until they had found Anakin?

    Was Maul supposed to lose to Obi-Wan? Was he supposed to sit there and taunt him instead of just killing him? If Maul had survived, along with Obi-Wan, was there still a plan in place to eventually have Anakin kill Maul?

    There's millions of other questions.
  2. Latorski Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    I think he may forsee possibilities which helps him make plans and contingency plans and more contingency plans. I don't think he forsees everything. He's not God.
  3. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I don't think he foresaw all of it happening; though I do think that he planned it very well. Perhaps he did have enough foresight to make the right decisions the majority of the time.
  4. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Right. Let's not forget he's unbelievably pompous and overconfident.

    "Everything is proceeding exactly as I have foreseen."

    I'm sure Vader's rolling his eyes underneath his mask. ;)

    I was thinking about this the other day.

    We have Yoda, on the one hand, saying that the future is always cloudy and in motion - but is the Shroud of the Dark Side still in effect at that time? Because Yoda would have to peer through the Dark Side to see the future (at least, according to the AOTC novelization, and backing up Mace's line "I think it is time we informed the Senate that our ability to use the Force is diminishing.").

    On the other hand, Palpatine is so confident he basically builds another Death Star just so that the Rebel Fleet will mass together and he can trap it - and trap Luke at the same time.

    Here's my new thought, and I'm sure someone has mentioned this before, but I haven't seen it:

    Palpatine could conceivably foresee everything except the whole Jedi Ghost/Disappearing Jedi phenomenon.

    According to the Jedi Code, "There is no death; there is the Force."

    Thus we have Obi-Wan sacrificing his life against Vader (which confounded Vader to no end), and Luke prepared to sacrifice his life rather than be turned to the DS.

    I honestly think it is inconceivable to Palpatine that someone would lay down their life like that - the Dark Side is all about maximizing power and extending life; I doubt the Sith have a concept of becoming One with the Force.

    So Palps knew that Luke would confront Vader on the DS II, but he could not foresee Luke giving up his life. I'm sure Palps foresaw Luke killing Vader - but always in motion is the future, a lesson Palps forgot.

    Sorry for the length.
  5. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    He did not see Vader being a traitor and killing him.
    He did not realize Luke, Leia and Han were on Endor

    So that during Return of the Jedi he lost all of it.

    I think he knew about everything in AOTC.

    And he probably knew about almost everything in TPM, I don't know if he saw the death of Maul, that is good for debate.

    -Seldon
  6. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    He forsaw EVERYTHING - except that Vaders' son would cause a cause an internal conflict.
  7. General_GrievousFan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 1
    I too think he foresaw some of it. Another quote Luke in ROTJ"you're overconfidence is your weakness"(something like that) and then the emp says "your faith in your friends is yours" mwhaha
  8. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    GG_Fan I don't see what your getting at...

    Palpatine could foresee almost everything in PT.
    I think it is in ROTJ that he began to loose his vision.
  9. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    I always wonder how it would have gone down if everything had gone Palpatines way from the very beginning. Let's see: Obi and Qui Gon are killed aboard the TF ship. Naboo is invaded. The queen is captured. She signs the treaty, making the occupation legitimate. Maul isn't needed to track the queen, so he stays in the shadows, and nobody knows about him but Palpatine. Palpatine is now the senator of an occupied planet. What was his original plan? Was he going to use sympathy to become elected as chancellor? If so, would he have left Naboo and the TF alone? Would he have instructed Maul to attempt a seperatist movement, so that he would have an excuse to build a clone army? Would he still have sought the aid of Dooku? Sure, it would violate the rule of two, but he didn't necessarily have to become a sith. Sidious makes use of trade viceroys, senators, and bounty hunters, why not a disillusioned jedi? Anakin would not have been found, Padme would have probably been killed, the jedi council would still be clueless. There are countless possibilites. What makes Palpatine so brilliant is that his schemes in TPM and AOTC keep failing, yet he still manages to win by the end of the movie!
  10. lord-darkhelmet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2003
    star 3
    In the end, it was Palpatine's underestimation of the power of the Ewok's that turned the tide in the battle and won the day for the Rebellion. The Empire was prepared for the Rebel ground attack on the shield generator and they were prepared for the naval attack on the Death Star. What they weren't prepared for, and what the Emperor underestimated, was the powerful fighting force of the Ewok army which was the deciding factor.

    Yub yub.
  11. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    I don't think he foresees specific events. Just perhaps opportunities, and such. Like some vague, or the kind of crap you get from Ms. Cleo.

  12. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    The Ewoks had little to do with it.
    Yes the did form a good distraction so Han could get the shields down, but they were still not a major force. What took the empire down was the skill of Han Solo to get the shields down, and the skills of Lando and Wedge, as well as Luke.

    -Seldon
  13. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Chewie was the deciding factor. His hijacking of the AT-ST was the turning point of the battle, and also enabled the Rebels to lure out the Imperials. If not for him, the battle would have been lost. The shield would have stayed up, and the DS would have decimated the Rebel fleet. But here's the weird thing: events in the throne room would have transpired the same way, so Vader and the Emperor would both have died. Luke would be alive, walking around the throne room, trying to figure out what to do. The Rebels on Endor would be dead, and the fleet would be gone. What would he do? I can just picture him walking briskly past the Royal Guards, whistling a tune. "The Emperor sent me out to get some, err... stuff. Don't go in there for about an hour." <dashes for the shuttle>
  14. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
    Did Palpatine foresee ALL of this?

    No, Uncle Palpy is a cocky bastard, he has no real idea of what will really happen only an idea of how his vision will transpire and traps that he sets.

    In RotJ his line about how things are going as he foresaw things is the biggest load of Ms. Cleo that I have ever heard. What a joke. Things could have turned around 180 degrees and he would have said the same thing. Vader is too much of a follower to question what Uncle Palpy really sees. In AotC he (Anakin) even said to Obi-Wan that he thinks Palpy is a good leader. He says the same thing to Amadalla-ding-dong when they are having a picnick.

    Uncle Palpy can't see anymore into the future than a psychic. He only gets part of it right because he is a better leader of military tactics. Which is why in RotJ he allows the Bothan spies to give the Rebels the Shuttle Tyderium with the special code (which he would be allerted to). Then he had the Bothans killed because, dead Bothans can't talk.

    So, in that case Palpatine, he foresaw ALL of this because he loaded the bait in the trap.
  15. JBRO13 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2003
    star 3
    "In RotJ his line about how things are going as he foresaw things is the biggest load of Ms. Cleo that I have ever heard."

    DEH CARDS DON'T LIE! CALL ME NAOW!
  16. DGUCK Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2004
    I'm with jediknightob1 on this. I think that palpy wants to make sure that everyone sees him as being all-knowing and all-powerful. He probably knows that Vader is a threat but as long as Vader believes that the emperor is in control of everything Vader doesn't resist. He's completely been humbled by the emperor (if not by anyone else). Palps certainly arranges and manipulates situations, but I think he totally comes in after the fact and says "Yeah, that's what I thought would happen." Kinda like someone coming out of the ESB theater saying, "You know, all during ANH I had this feeling that Vader was Luke's dad"
  17. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    i don't think palps forsaw maul being killed or anakin coming into the picture, but once that happend he was able to forsee everything up to ANH. he didn't forsee luke at all. this is why he called him an ememy in ESB. maybe he forsaw the duel at the end of Jedi an figured that luke would turn evil just like anakin did.
  18. DarthMatter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2004
    star 3
    If Palpatine could foresee "ALL of this" then he would have foreseen that Anakin would turn on him, that his reign as Emperor would be little more than 20 years, and that everything he plotted to build would be swept away. In Luceno's Darth Maul:Saboteur, Sidious says to Maul:
    "...we can exploit this entanglement to our own gain...a push here, a shove there, and both mining companies will collapse... There are certainties...but there is also the unforeseen. The power of the dark side is limitless, but only to those who accept uncertainty. That means being able to concede to possibilities."

    It would make little sense to hold this view, and instill it in his well-trained apprentice, if Palpatine could see farther into the future than any other powerful force user. It seems that Palpatine's strength was in setting up plots which did not depend completely on one player, even multiple plots, any one of which would be acceptable if it worked. He is looking toward his goal, of power, and finding opportunities in current conflicts to exploit to that end. "There are many ways to kill a Senator", as Obi-Wan says in AOTC.
  19. MetalGoldKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    He's not a god, he's just an extremely intelligent man. The reason he seems to know a lot about what's going on is because a lot of the time he's the one who's set up what's going on in the first place. He's a master of manipulation and deceit, not some kind of psychic deity.
  20. jedimasdrew Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    i think he did because at the end of episode 2 he said everything is going as planned so... i think so guys alot!!!! and since pal is him im sure he did :)
  21. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    MetalGoldKnight is 100% correct. Palaptines' actual abilities, IMO, are way overblown in this neck of the woods. His cunning and guile are what makes him, not any overwhelming force powers. Sure he is strong in the force, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts that Anakin, Mace, and Yoda are stronger, and Ill bet you its deception that saves his arse in Ep3, not strength.
  22. Emperor_Windy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2003
    star 1
    ^^^agreed 100%


    Sidious doesnt say that things are going as he forsaw, he said everything is going as he planned

    Sidious is a master planner, and by the time the OT rolls around the Force is moving quicky to balance itself so a "blinding light" probably keeps him from seeing the future, just like the shroud of the dark side represses the Jedi
  23. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Personally, I think the Force started to Balance itself, when the Sith started getting over confident. Much like the Jedi who couldn't really beyond their "ivory towers" after the supposed extinction of the Sith, the Force began to unbalance.


  24. Wrath_Mania Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2004
    star 4
    I'm sure Episode III will change your opinion that Palpatine isn't that strong in the force ;) He is the saga's main villian, you know.

    Sidious doesn't foresee EVERYTHING. He sees how it might play out, but even in TPM he had to change some of his plans on the fly, and did a great job of doing so I might add.
  25. MetalGoldKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    Oh, I'm not saying he isn't strong in the force. Seeing him deep-fry Luke and Vader in RotJ is proof of that. What I'm saying is that his strength in the force isn't that remarkable compared to others, and that it's his ability to manipulate that truly helps him to achieve the power he wants.
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