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PT Did Palpatine purposely create the Duel on Mustafar?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Polydroxol, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Destroying separatist leaders was important job. Sure one trooper batallion could do the same, but sending his apprentice was better choice. Plus they could understand the republic army before it lands, and Anakin went there as under ''ally'' disguise ...
     
    Kato Sai likes this.
  2. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Because having the most powerful Force User alive is a threat to Palpatine. If the Emperor were to allow Anakin to remain unhindered, eventually Anakin would realize he does not need Palpatine and can rule the Empire himself. Anakin alludes to this in ROTS when he says to Padme, "We can rule the galaxy, make things the way we want them to be." This is repeated in ESB, when Vader tells Luke, "join me and together we can rule the galaxy. We can destroy the Emperor, he has foreseen this." Palpatine has indeed forseen it, he knew Anakin if allowed to remain as powerful as he was prior to being in the suite, he could have destroyed Palpatine. The Emperor wanted the best of both worlds; he wanted the most powerful Force user, but he also wanted him marginalized enough to not be a threat to him. The best way to achieve this was to have Vader be injured and retain his powers, but be wounded enough that he would be co-dependent to Palpatine and his Imperial Heath Services. In fact, I imagine Palpatine was quick shocked, no pun intended, that Vader had the strength to toss him into the rector in ROTJ.
     
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  3. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    To get rid of his enemies and then to not overthrow him.
     
  4. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    I think Palpatine want Anakin to be powerful than himself or anyone, since it is serves the darkside either way. IIRC, he said to Yoda something like this ; ''You will not stop me, Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us.''

    If not, there is no point for raise a talented apprentice such as Darth Maul, he was 22 in TPM (even younger than Obi-Wan), and he could've been strong as Palpatine after 10 years.
     
  5. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    He sent Anakin to kill the Separatists leaders to feed Anakin's ego. Anakin wanted to buy into the delusion that the Sith were good and the Jedi were the evil ones. What's the best way to convince Anakin that the Sith are good? Sending him to kill the "bad guys" behind the war. Plus, having a big ego makes one more powerful as a Sith just as having humility strengthens the Jedi.

    I love the idea of Palpatine as puppet-master, but Palpatine had no way to know Obi-Wan would survive the Purge, that Anakin would tell Padme he was going to Mustafar, that Obi-Wan would sneak onto the ship she was taking there, or that Obi-Wan would win/lose/or barely not kill Anakin in their duel. There is strong circumstantial evidence that Palpatine manipulated the events around the duel with Mace and his posse. There just isn't any evidence that Palpatine had knowledge of or manipulated the events that led to Anakin being dismembered.

    Palpatine also genuinely wanted Anakin to become more powerful than himself. He says outright that he wanted to replace Dooku with someone younger and more powerful. He also tells Yoda: "You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us." So, basically Palpatine is boasting to Yoda that Anakin at some future point will be able to kill him off. Palpatine says this because he is a true believer in the Sith code.

    If the Sith got weaker apprentices than themselves so that their apprentices wouldn't be threats to them, then the Sith order would continually grow weaker every generation. The Sith look for apprentices who will outdo their masters. That guarantees that the Sith order will become stronger and stronger over time. I'm sure that Palpatine thinks that it will be a long time before Vader will surpass him, and even when Vader surpasses him, Palpatine will make it seem like he's keeping secrets about the Force from Vader to convince Vader to keep Palpatine around long after he surpasses Palpatine in sheer ability. (Plagueis used this strategy with Palpatine.) However, in the end, Palpatine recognizes that he will die sometime, so, if he doesn't find the way to live forever, he basically accepts that Vader sooner or later will kill him and become the next Sith lord -- that is, until Vader got himself all chopped up, and then Palpatine wanted a new apprentice who could become a suitable replacement. Palpatine will do his best to survive his longest because until Vader can and wants to kill Palpatine off, Palpatine would still be the more powerful of the two, but as it has always been with the Sith, the apprentice will ultimately become the master, and Palpatine fully accepts this.
     
  6. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Sith are caught in quandary. They want to pass on their teachings, but it requires each master's death. Palpatine did not want to perish to further the Dark Side's ambitions. Remember, Anakin says, "Help me save Padme, I can't live without her." Palpatine responds, "To cheat death has only been achieved by one, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." So then Palpatine does want to be immortal and thus he is against the tradition of Sith; were a apprentice eventually slays his master.
     
  7. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013

    I think it's actually an either/or thing for Palpatine. He's planning for both options. If he discovers a way to live forever, then he'd be fine with keeping an apprentice who would never surpass him. However, if he doesn't discover a way to live forever, then he recognizes he'll die at some point, so then he'd want to have the most powerful apprentice possible. Taking on a potentially more powerful apprentice might end his life earlier, but he knows he's going to die anyway (if he hasn't discovered a way to cheat death), and leaving a behind a new powerful master after his death will best guarantee that the Sith will live on forever. Either way, it's really about what's best for the Sith legacy. If he can live forever, then Palpatine would want to carry on the Sith legacy forever as the top dog, but if he can't discover how to live forever, then he accepts that he'll eventually be replaced, and he wants that replacement to be the best Sith possible.
     
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  8. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2013
    Palpatine doesn't even know that Kenobi's alive. He issues Order 66 right after he sends Anakin to the Temple, so I'm sure he believes that Kenobi will be dead by the time Anakin arrives at Mustafar.
     
    Marco1907 likes this.
  9. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Well said darth landar. I think you have cracked Palpatine's plot. If he can achieve immortality than so be it, if only infamy by having the most powerful apprentice then so be it. As you so eloquently put it he wants what is best for the Sith Legacy and either way the Dark Side's bidding will be done.

    However, if we take into account the final episode of The Clone Wars Series, the Sith Ghosts claim "there is no life after death," and so the Sith's view is that immortality can only be achieved in this life, not the next. So then Sith should want to stay alive as long as they can because unlike Darth Plagueis, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Yoda; they cannot preserve their personality in the next life. The Sith in every era seem obsessed with supremacy in this life and use their power to conquer and gain greatness now in a way that seems to suggest that they have no thought of the afterlife.

    If you have some other texts or tales I am unaware of, please share them. I like to broaden my view of the mysteries of the Force.