PT Did Palpatine's Lightning Hit Mace Windu ?

When I re-watch the scene, I've noticed something ;

In here, some of Palpatine's lightning is actually reaching to Mace Windu, which also makes sense that why Mace screams in pain while no other lightsaber fighters do in the same position against a Force lightning attack.

You can see Mace's face clear, which is in pain.


And now, it's just obvious ;



Palpatine's lightning actually hits Mace and he screams in pain ;

And then, it hits his legs too.



I wanted to make it clear, since there is an argument that Sidious wasn't actually trying to kill Mace Windu and he was toying with him. Which is illogical when you see how powerful that Force lightning was, and it could easily kill Mace if not for his last micro-second lightsaber reaction. It even hits him partially to his hand and his leg and Mace screams in pain because of that.

 

Yep. Ani really didn't was caring about any regulations or prohibitions on the Jedi code about not killing someone indefensible. He really just was caring about Padme and how to save her. He didn't care for Windu in this moment. We can see clearly since TPM he have something against Windu too.

Ani did all wrong.

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Yes, some of Darth Sidious lightning have hit Mace Windu.
But Mace Windu as Master Yoda have the capacity of taking Force lightning without die.
I think absorbing Force lightning with your body is something related to Vaapad.
As you can see Mace Windu sword actually reflects Palpatine Force lightning back to Palpatine.
Which is also unusual.
Palpatine takes all that Force lightning without being hurt, only having his face disfigured.

And no, Darth Sidious could not have killed Mace Windu with only one blast of Force lightning.
Also, Darth Sidious could not have kept the intensity of Force lightning high for long periods and his head cool, look how he is thrown down by Darth Vader/Anakin in episode 6 ; or how he looses power of Force lightning, in the duel with Master Yoda and finally is thrown back by reflected Force lightning.

 

Any Jedi can take a blast of lighting and not die. It has to be a concentrated blast like we see with Mace, that will result in a death. Mace was almost dead before Palpatine used the Force to shove him out the window, in order to dispose of his body. As to Palpatine, he didn't hit Mace with the full power of the Sith lightning until he was disarmed. That's why we could see Mace's skeleton, the same as we did Vader.

 

I think Mace was most powerful Force user and he could take a very concentrated ray of Force lightning and still be alive and kicking.
Luke in Return of the Jedi is still an average Force user,compared to even Obi Wan,not to mention Anakin,Mace or Yoda, this is why Luke falls on the ground at first Force lightning blast that hits him.
Besides, I do not think Darth Sidious can shoot a very concentrated Force lightning from the start, without any preparation.
And I think we do not have said anywhere that Mace died .
So we can not conclude that Mace died when Darth Sidious hit him with very concentrated Force lightning.
Maybe he died when he fell on the ground.
Or maybe Mace did not died.

 

It also looks like Mace is using the Force to deflect it, not only his lightsaber, since it's obvious that some of the lightning hits his legs if not for the Force. Similar to this.

Spoiler

 

Like others in the thread have mentioned, Windu was a very powerful force user and as a result could withstand more lightning. I wonder what would have happened if Anakin didn't intervene though, could Windu have beaten Sidious at full-force?

 

A single blast isn't going to kill any Jedi. It takes a long, concentrated blast. Palpatine was holding back while Mace had his saber. Once unarmed, he hit him with both barrels and Mace was about dead when he went out the window.

Luke isn't fully trained, that much is true. He's also not aware of the power of the dark side made manifest.

There doesn't need to be preparation. You either can do it, or you cannot.

Mace's dead. All of the Jedi seen in ROTS were killed. Lucas said that he is dead and the script confirms that.

The full force of Palpatine’s powerful Bolts blasts MACE. He attempts to deflect them with his one good hand, but the force is too great. As blue rays engulf his body, he is flung out the window and falls twenty stories to his death. No more screams. No more moans. PALPATINE lowers his arm.

With Luke, Palpatine is torturing him until he's done with him which is when he declares that Luke will now die and his blasts intensify, without anymore letting up.

 

I agree.

 

There is nowhere told by Lucas that Darth Sidious Force lightning is so powerful.
Neither is told that Darth Sidious have not used his full power Force lightning.
Neither is Force lightning equal from one time it was shoot to another time , it depends on Palpatine state of mind.
If I remember right, before shooting Master Yoda , Palpatine tells him " Now you will experience the full power of the dark side".
And master Yoda is knocked back being caught off-guard, but he is not hurt very bad at all.
So I think Darth Sidious Force lightning was pushing back people, but could not ever be strong enough to kill from one blast a good Force user.
As for killing a very good Force user with only one blast, Palpatine Force lightning was far from that.

 

Interesting photos. I had wondered about this myself.

Would make sense adding to why Mace decided to go for the kill, he would have been in physical pain.

 

Another question for the original poster:
Anakin at that moment was not even close by far, to Mace or Master Yoda,as duelist.
So is clear Darth Sidious is not afraid of Anakin,as duelist.
Anakin did not even knew to block Force lightning with his sword.
Why would Darth Sidious do a less powerful Force lightning against Mace Windu, than?
I think Darth Sidious would have impressed a lot more Anakin if he would have been able to eliminate Mace Windu with the first blast.

It is actually the fear of loosing Padme and the lust for power that makes Anakin switching to the dark side.
Anakin knows very well that Darth Sidious is not doing things right, but that does not matter for him.
What matters is that he needs Darth Sidious.
So I think Anakin would have switched faster to the dark side if he would have seen a more powerful Darth Sidious.

 

Dooku can do the same thing, he's just not in Palpatine's league. Any Sith with this level of training, can kill with the lightning.

Against Luke, it is stated in the ROTJ script and novelization that the final blast is more powerful and intense than what Luke was being hit with before then. Against Mace, Palpatine hits Mace hard at first and then pretends to be weaker than he really is. When Mace is disarmed, Palpatine springs to life which shows that he is faking.

It isn't a state of mind. He is torturing Luke before he decides to kill him. Against Mace, he is trying to kill him, but he is also trying to turn Anakin.

It's not a one hit punch that kills instantly. Against Yoda was a simple blast, same with what Dooku did to Anakin. Note that Palpatine doesn't keep pouring it on when the duel starts. He does in the Senate rotunda when Yoda is going for the kill and they get into their "irresistible force vs immovable object" moment.

 

My opinion is that:
Darth Sidious got defeated by Mace. Not because Darth Sidious wanted to get defeated, but because Mace Windu was more powerful than Darth Sidious, in the duel.
I understand what you are saying here, but I have a different opinion, that you have.
I think people should ask George Lucas, so George Lucas tells what he actually meant to show.
Maybe George Lucas left things like this,not so clear,for his reasons.

 

As shown the in the OP's original pictures, Mace was hit with lightning, but it seems like stray and weak end points that hit him. Yes he's in pain and talking through almost gritted teeth, but once deflecting it back onto him it no longer makes Mace defenseless in Anakin's mind. I agree with alot that Anakin wasn't so much hanging onto the Jedi Code that killing someone who is unarmed is wrong (as we see him behead Dooku in the first half hour of the movie, and immediately say "I shouldn't have done that, it's not the Jedi Way) but seeing a long-time friend, confidant and father like figure about to be struck down, and of course, this is the one person who claims he can teach him to keep Padme from dying.

I believe Anakin is speaking what he believes to be truth and the right thing when he says "he must stand trial" even though he knows Mace is right, Sidious has the entire Senate in his pocket and now has the facial deformities to claim he was attacked by the Jedi (as he eventually does.) Plus, Mace says it himself that he's too dangerous to be kept alive, even without a lightsaber Sidious is still giving Mace a run for his money with his force lightning alone.

As for those who have said those who are more trained in the force can withstand lightning longer, I don't believe that so much as that it depends on the person expelling the force lightning. I think in ROTJ Palpataine isn't going for the straight kill with Luke, but wanting to give him a slow, painful death; not only to give him a chance to recant and give himself to the Darkside, but to also show both Luke and Vader who is boss. When hitting Mace Windu, he hits him hard, but not hard enough to kill him as he wants Anakin to be the one to make the choice whether Windu lives or dies; cementing his turn to the Darkside.

 

Actually Jedis did not attacked Sidious.
Jedis came to arrest him.
Sidious has said that it is treason and jumped and attacked them.
In ROTJ Sidious is having a hard time killing Luke, he is saying, "now you will going to die", but Luke refuses to die and this angers Sidious.
So Sidious is trying to do even more intense Force lightning and that disconnects him from reality.
When Sidious does also a very intense Force lightning against Master Yoda, he also have a weird reaction.
So Sidious as the name says, I think it was mostly about deceiving people.
I think this is what Lucas want to say: main Sidious skill is to deceive people.
Not Force lightning.

Also, a dark side user is doing more intense Force lightning, the more hatred and anger he has.
So, if Mace just blocks first Force lightning, Darth Sidious do not have so much anger and hatred towards Mace.
Later, when Mace wants to kill him, that triggers a burst of fear into Palpatine which leads to a burst of anger,hatred into Darth Sidious.
This is how second Darth Sidious Force lightning is more powerful than first. Darth Sidious now has a lot more anger and hatred into him.

Remember what Count Dooku says to Anakin, when they duel:
"you have anger, you have hate but you do not use them".

 

I feel like Palpatine was using 3/4's effort on Mace Windu during their fight. He wanted the chance to turn Anakin to the dark side, and opened a window of opportunity for Skywalker to do so. As much as I like Mace Windu and think he was a very powerful jedi, I do not think he could have defeated Sideous. Darth Sidious is just ridiculously overpowered pls nerf. sv_papapalpatinecheats0

 

An interesting piece of evidence displaying Anakin's thought process is that in the beginning of the film when Anakin kills Dooku, Palpatine tells him, "He was too dangerous to be kept alive". To which Anakin replied, "I know...but it's not the Jedi way." Now jump closer to the end of the film where Windu is trying to finish off Palpatine. Windu tells Anakin that Palpatine is, "too dangerous to be kept alive" when told that Palpatine should stand trial. From these exchanges, it is clear that Anakin believes the Jedi are no longer following their code, and that at this point what is really the difference between the Jedi and the Sith. And which is the better side to be on, the one that enforces a code that forbids his love with Padme or the one that promises to save Padme's life?

 

And that's why alot of Anakin's turn is due to his own rationalization and perception. When he's demanding Palps/Sidious must be kept alive, it's not really that he believes in the Jedi's code, but it's because Palps being alive benefits him. Dooku and Anakin had bad blood, and though he hesitated in killing him, it really didn't take too much convincing to pull the sabers out. If Dooku had been in Palps place, offering the knowledge that Palps did of saving Padme's life, you best believe he would've kept him alive.

Alot of Anakin actually reflects most of humanity. We tend to give preference and opportunities to those who treat us well or benefit our end goals. Palps was grooming Anakin since early adolescence while Dooku took off his arm and was branded a traitor. Anakin respects Palpataine based on their relationship, where Windu was basically against Anakin as a Jedi since day one. We hold grudges, and we act on emotion. Anakin knew Palpataine/Sidious was not the good guy in the scenario, or else he wouldn't have told Mace about him being a Sith, and he wouldn't be demanding a trial against him. The problem was, is that the Jedi weren't exactly upholding their solid morals and beliefs, and they weren't giving Anakin what he wanted. When both sides are bad, who wouldn't choose the side that offers a person what they want?

 

Yes, a very interesting mirroring between what Palpatine tells and what Mace Windu tells.
However, going more in depth we can say that:
-Count Dooku had his arms cut so he could not wield anymore a sword ,neither do Force lightning.
So what Anakin says about Dooku "he was an unarmed prisoner" it is actually the truth.
Dooku was not too dangerous to be kept alive. It was dangerous for Darth Sidious, because he could have said the truth,that Palpatine is same with Darth Sidious.
-Darth Sidious ,on the other side, was indeed very dangerous. So, even if "is too dangerous to be kept alive" is said in both scenes and at the first glance it seems that both Darth Sidious and Count Dooku are unarmed prisoners, in fact only Count Dooku is a harmless unarmed prisoner.

Mace Windu could have cut Darth Sidious hands, instead of killing him and that would have been a lot more the Jedi way.

 

Valid points but you forget one thing. Who's to say Papa Palpatine wouldn't stick out his tongue and use it to shoot the most powerful bolts of force lightning ever seen by man onto the unprepared Mace Windu?!?!?