Did R.A. Salvatore put a Lord of the Rings refrence in The New Jedi Order?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Vong_Killer, Oct 6, 2001.

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  1. Vong_Killer Jedi Knight

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    Aug 22, 2001
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    I'm in the middle of Fellowship of the Rings and i noticed that one of the towers that they mention is named Anor, wich they then say means The Setting Sun. Did Salvatore name Nom Anor as an ode to Tolkien's classic trilogy? It would make sence that the Vong would be named "the Setting Sun"
  2. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Nom Anor, was originally a Crimson Empire 2 character.
  3. Vong_Killer Jedi Knight

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    Aug 22, 2001
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    Really? I hann't gotten around to reading that yet (considering my disapointment with the first) Did he play a Vong?
  4. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 19, 2000
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    He was a shadowy mastermind character, playing the interrim council for fools. You see semi-biogenic looking armor, but not his face.

    See, when RAS was writing his book, he was creating a character that would be the villain for his story, and LFL told him Nom Anor was the kind of villain he was looking for. That's why he inserted him in.

    Similer think happened for kyp, and that's why inserted that character in as well, in the way he did.

  5. Vong_Killer Jedi Knight

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    Aug 22, 2001
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    did whoever origannaly write Nom Anor for CE\rimsone Empire II know that Tolkien had used the name Anor?
  6. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 19, 2000
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    No idea. It could be, or it could just be an coincidence. Or it could be refrence to someone with the last name of Anor(yes the last name does exist.).
  7. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    I, too, recognized the name Anor. (It's mentioned in the Council of Elrond as well) But I figured it was another example of the EU inability to name characters. I was rereading VoTF and there's someone named Devistat. I mean, come on!
  8. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    An even easier explanation is that sometimes names simply get repeated by chance.

    For example: One of Tolkien's many names for Middle-Earth was Endor. You'll find it in one reference in The Silmarillion, on page 89 of the hardback or trade paperback edition, and in isolated other references (mostly in History of Middle-Earth references whose publication dates come after RotJ).

    Although Lucas COULD have chosen Endor as the name of the Ewoks' home planet because of the Tolkien reference, the reference is so obscure that I tend to doubt it. Probably Lucas either came up with the name on his own, or selected/adapted it from another source for reasons of his own.
  9. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 19, 2000
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    Remember Endor originates in the Bible, the Witch of Endor.
  10. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Ummm, Anakin Skysolo...
    Endor has always been biblical in nature.

    Saul consulted the witch of Endor when he became apostate just before his death (1 Sam 28:3-25; 1 Chron 10:13).

    A good obscure reference may be Hoth. Was not Hoth (pronounced as in "oh") a German commander who was a part of the Eastern Front during Germany's failed winter campaign? Can any WWII-philes out there confirm that?
  11. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Yea, Endor is from 1 Samuel 28. Thats pretty a pretty weird converstation that Saul and the witch has.


    About Hoth...I dont know.
  12. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    [Slightly off-topic]

    Was the NJO already planned when Anor appeared in CEII ? I mean, what he says is really linked to what'd happen during the NJO...
  13. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
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    Oh, well. I'm not that familiar with many parts of the Bible. And I'm not familiar with how Lucas came up with the name Endor.

    I didn't know that Endor had biblical roots. I just noticed the fact that Endor was one of Tolkien's names for Middle-Earth a few weeks ago. I am not familiar with Endor's use in Samuel.

  14. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    No, CE author created Nom Anor.

    RAS created a character like nom, and LFL told him he could just use Nom Anor instead, since it was exactly like the person that RAS created. So RAS was happy to oblige.

    The only problem that could have been created from this result is that Nom Anor may have been planned to play a role in CE3, and now elements of the story may be changed, for one thing CE3 now taking place NJO time period.
  15. Dev Sibwarra Jedi Master

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    Jun 4, 1999
    star 4
    Based on the "About the Author" info in his books, RAS was inspired to write by LotR, so it's fully possible that he included references to the series in VP. However, Nom Anor isn't one of them.
  16. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    Any clue to which forces Anor originally refered, before the creation of the Vong ?
  17. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    No, but it probably would have been covered in the old intended version of CE3, which has had to be changed to fit with newer established continuity. We will see what is in CE3 by next year.
  18. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    Yup. Can't wait for that one !!!
  19. Nom Anor TFN Books Staff

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    As for the first part of Nom Anor's name:


    Nom means name in Latin (i think its Latin). This might be a reference to his many different identities, or it could just be a fluke.
  20. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    The country Adorra is named after the biblical village Endor.

    TC
  21. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    I was just going to ask about the bible mentioning a witch in Endor. Thanks for foreseeing my question Valiento. Are we going to have to view you as a Jedi now?

    More importantly, since someone mentioned that Anor is a real last name, any idea what it means in real life. If it means the same thing as it did in Tolkien's works, might not be a coincidence that Tolkien used it in that meaning. And that could be the meaning of the name in Star Wars terms as well.

    We already know that at least one name may well have been choosen for it's meaning, a meaning which is rather both a clue and important to the character. That being the name of Darth Vader, which translates into english as Dark Father. It could well be that certain character or place names were chosen because of their meaning. And not just for Star Wars either.
  22. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
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    I just checked out the Tolkien Companion on Friday. Myself, I'm more of a mild fan in that I know a little of The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, it's my dad who's the rwal fan. I've only come into contact with the world Tolkien created through the animated movies, a couple of computer games my dad once owned (the entire set was The Hobbit, Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and Cracks of Doom, of which my father owned two and four), the one time I tried reading The Two Towers for school, and more recently, a full cast audio book my dad just got. He still owns the Lord of the Rings novel, but it has been badfly beat up over the years. And as it was for school that I tried reading The Two Towers, with my work load and the fact that I hated doing book reports, as well as having to read another book at the same time for the same class, I never finished it. But intrest has returned enough to get me to check out this book.

    By now folks are saying what does this have to do with this thread. Well, after seeing the thread last night, I got to thinking about Anor in terms of Tolkien. So I tried looking it up in the book. Anor appears under the Anorien entry as follows:

    Anorien 'Sun-land (Sind.) One of the two oldest provinces of Gondor, as the Realm was originally ordered. It was named in honour of Anor (the Sun), and also after Anarion, son of Elendil, who ruled Gondor conjointly with his brother Isildur at the beginning of the Realm. Anorien contained most of the land west of the Great River and east of the White Mountains. Its chief city was Minas Anor, later renamed Minas Tirith.


    According to this source, Anor actually means the Sun in Tolkien's usage. Not the Setting Sun. However, this may not be true as it is not on of Tolkien's works. But it does say this for Minas Anor:

    Minas Anor 'Tower of the [Setting] Sun' (Sind.) Originally a beautiful fortified city built shortly after the founding of Gondor at the end of the Second Age, Minas Anor was for years accounted one of the two principal fortresses of the realm; however, by the time of the War of the Ring, at the end of the Third Age, it had been renamed Minas Tirith, and had become the chief city and the only surviving stronghold of the diminished South-kingdom.


    This is naturally a mere portion of the entire entry, which is at least two pages long. Again, as this is not one of Tolkien's works, and I have not truely read any of Tolkien's works, I can not verify if this is true or not. But it would seem to suggest that Anor only means the Setting Sun when used in conjuncture with Minas, which would seem to mean 'Tower of'. The meaning of Minas seems to be confirmed by Minas Ithil ('Tower of the [Rising} Moon'), Minas Morgul ('Tower of Socery'), and Minas Tirith ('Tower of Guard'). Naturally, this is my observation based on a book written by someone other than Tolkien.
  23. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    You're right. Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith) was the Tower of the Sun, and Minas Ithil (later Minas Morgul after it was occupied by the Nazgul) was the Tower of the Moon.

    BTW: If you want to read The Lord of the Rings, I suggest that start with The Fellowship of the Ring. LotR is a single novel, despite the fact it's in three volumes. Starting with The Two Towers is roughly akin to picking up a Star Wars novel with 30 chapters and starting with Chapter 11.
  24. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

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  25. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 5, 2000
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    Ah, so true. But the problem with that suggestion was this, I checked the book out from the school library, and they only had The Two Towers. Because I'd same the computer game volume, I knew it was part of Lord of the Rings, so I figured that I'd read it anyway. But like I said, time I read it, my school work load, the fact that I hated doing book reports, and the fact that my teacher was making us read another book at the same time, expecting us to have no problem with that idea, really turned me off from reading it.
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