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Did Sidious destroy Mace's posse TOO easily?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by AtaruMaster, Feb 6, 2006.

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  1. AtaruMaster

    AtaruMaster Jedi Youngling

    Jan 14, 2006
    I was just wondering what people thought about the scene in ROTS where Sidious cuts through Kolar, Tiin, and (slightly less so) Fisto, as if they had never wielded a saber. Granted the scene was meant to show how powerful Palps is, and how ONLY Yoda or Mace could stand a chance, but wasn't it just a little too fast for anyone to overcome 3 council members, lightsaber experts at that, so fast?

    I know the novel sort of offers some explanation, but does anyone know something I dont?
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Aug 6, 2001
    I totally think so. This is one of my few issues with ROTS. They should have lasted a LITTLE longer... and what were the other three peope doing while Palpatine was stopping, cocking back and stabbing the first guy? Sheesh....
  3. orangefuzz

    orangefuzz Jedi Padawan star 4

    Feb 21, 2003
    No. Asd far as RL goes I'm they needed to make the duel short so that they could fit in two more.
  4. Darth_Ogawa

    Darth_Ogawa Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 16, 2005
    It would have made it look cooler if Palps would have drilled into them with his lightsaber as he did that aerial spin move.

    It looked ok when he killed Kit Fisto though.
  5. jedipadawanjoe14

    jedipadawanjoe14 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jul 7, 2005

    oo come cant tell me that they couldnt of spared another minute if that
  6. G-FETT

    G-FETT Force Ghost star 7

    Aug 10, 2001
    I never really had a problem with this. I think the idea was to make Sidious look HUGELY more powerful than the Jedi (except Mace) But I guess it would have been kinda fun to have maybe had one of the Posse survive a little longer. Perhaps one could have been killed in the passage-way between the Office and the Antechamber?
  7. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 4, 1999
    I'm glad they were offed so quickly. The only people who have an issue with this is mostly EU junkies who already like the characters--"no way Sasse Tin would go out like that blah blah blah". They are unimportant extras and their only purpose is to make Sidious look more powerful by comparison. I LOVE the way a whole slew of jedi waltz into Palpatine's office and he just takes them out in a matter of seconds. Its really startling.
  8. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Apr 24, 2001
    Did Sidious destroy Mace's posse TOO easily?

    And how! I saw younglings fight better than the first two masters who got offed. They didn't even try.
  9. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

    Jul 29, 2001
    I agree. The way it was filmed was pretty sloppy. The Making Of book offers some insight into this and doesn't appologize for anything.
    They were having major choreography issues.
    However, the one thing I'm pretty forgiving for in this scene, is the slow ****-back and stab. I believe that was done for dramatic purposes. Did it work? Eh... Yes and no. I think I see what they might've been going for. They didn't quite pull it off :p It was all second unit work however with pick-ups brought in to try to fix things.
    All in all, as it's two filmic nobodies, I don't let it eat me up. Kit was pretty good though. Love his death wail ^_^
  10. Avid_Prequels_Fan

    Avid_Prequels_Fan Jedi Master star 2

    Sep 14, 2003
    This is exactly what I was thinking, although I don't view the Jedi as unimportant extras. I love the shriek he lets out as he spins towards them, pure badass.
  11. acidfireeyes

    acidfireeyes Jedi Youngling star 1

    Oct 1, 2005
    I think they should have replaced Grievous?s 4 lightsaber dual with obi-wan and made Palpatine?s a 4 lightsaber dual. That would have been a lot cooler and would have really showed how powerful he was to defeat them at the same time instead of taking them out one by one. They way it looked in the movie it is like they just stood there and let him cut them in two. Didn?t Mace tell them before they got there that Palp was a Sith and maybe they should be ready and not stand there and let him kill them. Or did Mace really think that Palp was gonna stand up and say ?OK, you got me I guess the gig is up, take me away.?
  12. -HD-YaebGinn

    -HD-YaebGinn Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jan 31, 2005
    Yes, I dont mind that they lost, but the problem is that they lost without even blocking or anything. They (the production people) wanted Sidious to look so bad as to have him kill 4 Jedi Masters, yet there isnt a way to choreograph one guy killing 4 people in a way to make it believable. So they kill 2 without anything happening. And the other beat pretty soon afterwords. The real killer is the hesitation, which makes it totally unbelievable. Jedi reflex my eye.

    Hindsight being 20/20 and all, here's what should have happened.

    1. Have Anakin be in the room like it was originally filmed, but instead of him standing there doing nothing, have him realize what the Jedi have come to, and help Palpatine defeat the Jedi. What this would have done would establish Anakin's power and make his turn more dramatic and definite- not to mention cool looking. (instead of an accidental killing of Mace) and would have made for a crowd pleasing duel. The problem would be havin the crowd believe one second he is ready to turn Palpatine in, yet the next he's helping him kill Jedi. Which would require maybe a few script lines to change things. Something would have to very apparently click in Anakin to make him view the Jedi differently. Like Palpatine appearing to be very cooperative with the Jedi, and then Anakin seeing how they are ready to kill this seemingly harmless person just because he is a Sith.

    2. Have it filmed like it was up to the duel, and have Palpatine use ALOT of Force. Like he leaps, only a little to the left of where he leapt before. He fights Tiin one-handed, and when Agen steps in to help, Agen unknowingly blocks the rest of the little platform they were standing on so the rest of the posse couldnt immediately attack palpatine from all sides. Have Palps blast Agen with lightning, finish off Tiin, then the duel is 2-1.
    Make this half of the duel pretty good, similar to Dooku fighting Anakin and Obi on Dooku, but of course more suited to Palpatine's style. Either have Fisto killed on Mace's blade (force push?) or just something equally cheap, such as throwing stuff at him. The the Mace Palps duel commences as it does on film.

    sry for long post.
  13. purpilian

    purpilian Jedi Youngling star 2

    Nov 27, 2005
    I think it would of been better had we seen an known what badasses these masters were. For the average viewer who doesnt know these guy they will think they go out like punks. If we saw what power they had, then I think the scene would work much better.
  14. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 30, 2001
    This is tricky. I think Sidious taking out the posse so fast was a good idea, but performed badly. To me it didn't look like Sidious was moving any faster than normal Jedi do in battle. So that was kinda weak. Also when he jumps towards them, you'd think they would have gotten into some sort of defense mode. But two of them just stood there to get slaughtered. Looking really week. Perhaps we should have seen more of them in AOTC. To establish them. Or perhaps given some of them dialogue earlier.

    I also think the posse should have been Mace Windu, Saesee Tiin, Kit Fisto, Shaak Ti, and Cin Drallig. Making it five. One could have been cut down instantly. Then around the time Fisto is cut down in the film, another two should have been taken down in some fancy move. Then 10 seconds later the final one should have been cut down. Ending the first portion with Mace and Sidious staring at each other. Also a force push to one of them would have been interesting.

    I realize it was a small space to work with, but it could have been done better.
  15. RebelScum77

    RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Aug 3, 2003
    I agree with HLAS. I think it was a bit awkward and too fast. I can live with it certainly, but the choreography problems they were having are very evident. It didn't need to be a long and drawn out affair, the book does a better job of explaining it, but a little more fight in those Jedi would have been nice.
  16. ZamWesell44

    ZamWesell44 Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 13, 2003
    i didn't have a problem with those jedi being killed so easily, more of a problem with Mace lasting so long, but then again Sidious was never trying to kill him and just waiting on Anakin.
  17. Obi-Wan-1000

    Obi-Wan-1000 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 11, 2005
    Mace's posse were just standing there doing nothing, It looks like they were in shock or something.
  18. darthsith19

    darthsith19 Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 23, 2004
    Yes, they got taken out too easily. Though I have used the unofficial excuse that palaptine used Force Rage to take them out to ease my anger, he didn take them out to easily. IMO, Mace should have came alone. He should have arrived to make sure Palaptine surrendered his emergency powers, not knowing Palaptine was a Sith, just as Anakin was leaving to go tell Mace what he learned about Palpatine. Or else A dozen or so Royal Guards should have taken out Kolar and Tiin while Sidious took on Mace and Kit and, after a hard fight, shuld have managed to take out Kit only to be "defeated" by Mace.
  19. farrellg

    farrellg Jedi Master star 4

    Mar 17, 2005
    I think the scene was handled exceptionally well. It shows how the Emperor is 500 times faster than anyone else. If the Jedi lasted longer, the Emperor wouldn't look as powerful. Showing the Emperor's power was very important for ROTS.
  20. brook_33

    brook_33 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 30, 2003
    It doesn't show Palpatine is faster. It shows that when Agen Kolar is faced with death coming at him he just turns his cheek and looks the other way. And of course we see Saesee Tiin freezed when faced with danger.
  21. darthsith19

    darthsith19 Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 23, 2004
    I agree, but there's a difference between making him look strong and making two Council Masters go down worse than Younglings. I mean, I'm no Jedi but I'm certain I could have done better than the two of them, or at least Saesee Tiin. I mean, I'd do more than just stand there. I'd probably swing, he'd dodge it and then I'd get cut in half anyways but at least I'd do something. How hard is it to just swing, or block, or for Mace to cut him down while he's stabbing Agen or debapitating Saesee?
  22. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

    Jul 29, 2001
    TIIN: Hey, Kolar.
    KOLAR: Yeah?
    TIIN: Did we leave the water running in the apartment?
    KOLAR: You know, I think we might have-- AAARRRGGGHH.
    TIIN: Might have what? Really, Kolar, dropping off in midsentence is just ru-- AARRRGGGHH!

    FISTO: Hey, Mace! Palpatine appears to be killing people!
    MACE: You're right! Well, we'd better defend ourselves!
  23. DarthLassic007

    DarthLassic007 Jedi Master star 6

    Nov 25, 2002
    I think the Jedi that Lucas' son played could have lasted longer than those three stooges.
    Coleman Trebor could have even lasted longer than those guys.
    At least Fisto lasted seconds longer in the ROTS DVD.

  24. Avid_Prequels_Fan

    Avid_Prequels_Fan Jedi Master star 2

    Sep 14, 2003
    Is this the scene you get when you type 1138 into the Revenge of the Sith DVD? [face_laugh]
  25. brook_33

    brook_33 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 30, 2003
    Coleman Trebor couldn't even deflect a few blaster shots.
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