Saga Did Sidious know about Luke before ESB?

He must have known about him long before that scene in ESB. Like c'mon, he's the Dark Lord of the Sith, the Emperor of the galaxy and his apprentice is Luke's father. He must have thought of replacing the cyborg Vader with a more powerful apprentice long before then and Vader's own offspring would've been perfect. Padmé was pregnant after all, so Luke must have been out there somewhere.

Perhaps he was hiding it from Vader until then as he thought he could turn Luke to the dark-side himself and train him as a secret apprentice (if he found him), but once he figured out Luke was the rebel behind destroying the Death Star and a Jedi, he'd need Vader to turn him. Just like he said, "he has grown strong; only together can we turn him towards the Dark Side of the Force".

 

He found out about him after A New Hope, just like Anakin.

 

Did you watch ROTS? Padme died by Vader's hand as far a both Vader and Palptine were concerned. The only people who knew about the existence of the twins were Yoda, Obi-Wan and Bail Organa.

You are describing the plot of The Force Unleashed.

 

Which actually comes from what Lucas said regarding Luke vs Vader in the OT.

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version, if he can turn Luke to the dark side."

--George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005


"The Emperor wants Luke to kill Vader so that he will have a new young Jedi. Lets face it, Vader is half mechanical and he is not half as good as he could be. He is not nearly as good as he was hoping Anakin would become because Anakin ends up in the suit. He is hoping he gets a new, better apprentice in Luke. If he kills his father then he would take his place as an apprentice; which actually there is something that in the next film is how Anakin becomes his apprentice."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

 

Well considering that Luke was still going by the name of Skywalker, wouldn't you think some of the locals would've thought that he may have been related to great Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker? Did the Emperor not have spies or even just stormtroopers spread out throughout the galaxy with an eye out for a potential Skywalker child?

As far as I'm concerned, The Force Unleashed is no longer canon so we know nothing about the Emperor's plans between ROTS and ANH except for the Death Star.

 

Why would Palpatine be looking for a dead child? Padme died. The Jedi faked the deaths of the children, by altering the documentation of their survival and made it look like Padme was still pregnant when she was sent back to Naboo. And technically we do know what the plan was. Vader tells us in "Spark Of Rebellion".

 

I'm merely pointing out the fact that you are inquiring about a subject that has already been thoroughly explored.

If you knew someone going by the name Lincoln, would you assume he was related to Abraham Lincoln?

The Empire had no presence on Tatooine, and once again, the Emperor was not aware of the existence of the twins.

 

Sidious's hubris blinded him to many things in the OT. "Your overconfidence is your weakness."

(1) Did not find out about Luke Skywalker until the middle of ESTB. Vader, on the other hand, knew since the end of ANH. The Emperor basically goes "There has been a disturbance in the Force", while Vader is thinking to himself "Yeah, I know. I was about to secretly capture him until you found about it."

(2) Could not sense Luke even though he was on Endor.

(3) Did not know about the indigenous species of Endor

(4) Did not know about the true extent of Vader's internal conflict

 

While I agree that Sidious's hubris and overconfidence did affect his judgment and planning, I don't think that all of that is correct. I think Sidious found out that Luke had been the one to destroy the Death Star around the same time Vader did. They both found it out independently. I don't think that Sidious believed that there was any major threat to his ground forces on Endor because he was convinced Imperial victory was inevitable. I think he was aware of Vader's internal conflict, as he was clearly trying to exploit it. Sidious was preying on Vader's mixed feelings for Luke in order to use him to bring Luke to him and to manipulate them against each other. However, you are correct that he didn't know Luke was on Endor. I think this is one of the signs that Sidious was paying more attention to the big picture more than the details. You have to focus on both to be successful sometimes.

 

The Emporer didn't know about Luke until, I'm guessing, right when the DS blew up. He was too busy doin' his thing to be focusing on what remainder of Jedi there were, and Luke wasn't even trained in the force yet. If anyone should've felt him prior to ANH it would be Vader, considering he's his flesh and blood. Sidious probably knew something big would happen eventually, but no, if he knew about Luke prior to the end of ANH/ the start of ESB, he would've had him captured/ killed.

 

Thank you for pointing that out SateleNovelist11. What I meant to say was that Sidious underestimated the Ewoks and Vader's internal conflict. Underestimating can be just as devastating as not knowing something sometimes which is why I exaggerated a little I suppose.

As for finding out about Luke, I'll agree to disagree. Yes, they both found out independently, but I think Vader found out first. In ESTB, Vader tells Luke that they can rule the galaxy as father and son. From this, it seems that Vader's true/original intent was to train Luke so he'd become powerful enough for them both to overthrow the Emperor. Unfortunately, the Emperor found out about Luke before Vader apprehended him. As a result, Vader had to improvise.

 

That's fair.

 

Luke surrendered to Vader on Endor. He went going to try to sway Vader over to the good side. But Luke underestimated Vader's attachment to the dark side. Luke tried a one ditch last chance effort to show Vader had some good left in him on Endor. Unfortunately that didn't work and Luke accepted, for the time being that his father was truly dead. But I am sure Vader and Sidious had their own "sources" of information. It is plausible to think that after the destruction of the DS and before the events of TESB, that Vader would have interrogated some rebels that were caught and they gave up information like Luke being the one who destroyed the DS. I am sure that Vader would want that information personally. And Vader was a more "in the field" type of guy. As where the emperor was mainly in his palace and not in the field. So Vader could have accessed the info about Luke much faster than Sidious could.

 

If you go by this:

Vader finds out Luke is his son in TESB. Hence the dialogue changes "How is that possible?!"

 

But in the beginning of TESB, it says "The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote droids into the far reaches of space.."

I inferred that Vader was obsessed with finding him because he suspected his Force potential. In ANH Vader says "The Force is strong with this one"

With these two quotes in mind, I inferred that Vader tried to make Palpatine think he didn't already know about Luke Skywalker.

Or are you trying to say that Vader knew that Luke was strong in the Force, but it was not until his conversation with Palpatine that he knew that Luke was also his son?

 

Yup. That's the approach the EU started taking, after TESB was changed to have new dialogue - and I think that's what's implied in the interviews as well.

 

Interesting. Is this new dialouge part of the Blu-ray versions or something? I preferred the original way the scene transpired.

 

It is. Bolded parts are new:

"What is thy bidding, my Master?"
"There is a great disturbance in the Force."
"I have felt it."
"We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."
"How is that possible?"
"Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."
"He is just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
"The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
"If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally."
"Yes. Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?"
"He will join us or die, Master."

 

This sort of makes Vader seem like an idiot:

"The offspring off Anakin Skywalker."
"How is that Possible?"

Uh, his last name is Skywalker? Did that possibility really not occur until right that second?

Also, Why does the emperor refer to Vader in the third person? It's a really weird phrasing.

 

(1) At Padme's funeral in ROTS, they made it seem like she was still pregnant. Therefore, Anakin/Vader was led to believe that his offspring had died along with Padme

(2) Skywalker may be a common surname in the Star Wars universe.

(3) People call each other by name all the time; I don't see what's weird about that.

 

Then why didn't Palpatine just say, "Your offspring"?

 

A kid named Skywalker, living with the family that bought Anakin Skywalkers mom, in the same city where Anakin Slywalker grew up.

Yeah. You'd think someone would figure it out. The thing is, even if they did, did they care? Would they want to draw the empire to tattooine, knowing how free from it's grip they've been?

 

Vader is playing dumb, obviously. His goal is to overthrow Palpatine with Luke's help, which is why he is so hellbent on getting Luke to begin with.

 

I'll provide the in-universe reason because we both know the out-of-universe reason (I am your father spoiler). It's pretty much what Ben Kenobi was talking to Luke about in ROTJ,

In-universe reason: Anakin is whom Vader was before he became a Sith and fell to the dark side. By becoming Darth Vader, he forsook all that he once was to learn the ways of the Sith. He abandoned his moral principles, compassion, and humanity in the pursuit of power.

 

Two reasons.

1. In universe, he is still treating Vader and Anakin as separate people.

2. If people don't start with TPM, but instead with ANH, then it retains the surprise while name checking Luke's father and showing that Vader may or may not be deceitful.