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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Did Sidious Tell Dooku To Tell The Truth?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Imperial Reject, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Imperial Reject

    Imperial Reject Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2012
    I was thinking about Palpatine's plan earlier how genius and intricate it was, well I thought about one specific moment from AOTC in a different light.

    When Count Dooku tells Obi-Wan the truth in AOTC was he doing so of his own accord or did Sidous tell him to say it? because it ties in with Anakin's downfall so well. Palpatine knew it would make the Jedi paranoid and they would investigate the Senate and eventually come to suspect either him or someone close to him was Sidious. as Palpatine gathered more power from the Senate to actually being able to interfere with Jedi affairs, he appoints Anakin as his representative on the council. He dangles Anakin in front of them because he knows they won't be able to resist using Anakin and Palpatine's relationship against him. and they fall for it they won't give Anakin what he wants and instead asks him to spy on his friend and mentor creating more mistrust between Anakin and the council making him confide even more in Palpatine eventually leading to his turn to the Dark side.

    and he planned that 3 years in advance? I know I'm slow lol but I just never thought about it that way, I'd always seen it as Dooku trying to get Obi-Wan on his side
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I'd go with "Dooku is acting on Palpatine's instructions" in telling Obi-Wan that, at least.
     
  3. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I don't believe so. I believe Dooku chose that course on his own and correct for doing so and Obi was foolish not to listen.
     
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  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I thought the short-story version of that scene, Precipice, by Chris Cassidy, was beautifully done:

     
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  5. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I'm not sure if it was Dooku or Palpatine's idea.

    It's an amazing scene...but I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense.

    I have no idea what Dooku's motivation is in that scene. Honestly, he's unfathomable there. Maybe that's what makes it such a great scene.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  6. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    i don't think so. that was dooku's ploy. the apprentice always wants to overthrow the master.

    sidious does it, maul does it, dooku and vader do it.
     
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  7. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    I think it makes perfect sense and it is proof he isn't as most paint him. :) It conveys noble character and a desire for change and that a young man realise scope. Shame Obi didn't.
     
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  8. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    he still an evil sith but he started out wanting to make things better.
     
  9. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005
    i'm not sure about this. Dooku would have had to talk to Sidious, because Obi-Wan showing up was unexpected. i kind of lean toward him doing it on his own.
    i mean hey, he really may have thought he could seduce Obi-Wan over to joining the Seperatists, attacking the Republic and killing Sidious with Obi-Wan as his new apprentice.
     
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  10. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I'm sure Dooku did so with Sidious' permission. If Sidious didn't want his existence revealed, he could have found out easily enough in his role as Chancellor that Dooku had informed the Jedi about his resistance. It was a move to sow seeds of doubt within the Jedi since Dooku mixed in that one truth with several lies, as well as make the Jedi suspicious of the Senate and thus drive a further wedge between them. And the Senators really only had two options to turn to for protection, either the Jedi or Palpatine.
     
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  11. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    It only makes sense to assume that Sidious told him to do so. Why would Dooku tell that against his knowledge when he knew Sidious, given the position he's in, would eventually find out sooner or later?
     
  12. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2004
    Who knows? Dooku could've been trying to recruit Obi Wan as an apprentice, as the way of the Sith do, to overthrow his master. He also could've been just being honest with Kenobi, giving him a heads up, in fondness for his "grandson" in Jedi terms. Or, just trying to justify his actions as not exactly joining the darkside and Sith, but cleansing the Order and Republic, which I truly believe he thought he was doing.
     
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  13. zompusbite

    zompusbite Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 3, 2014

    Please...
     
  14. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 21, 2011
    Why can't it be both? Who says Palpatine had to TELL Dooku to do that. Maybe Dooku telling Obi-Wan that of his own will still played a part in Palpatine's game, without Dooku even knowing it.
     
  15. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2007
    Dooku was not your typical Sith, he was an idealist and he was trying to reform a corrupt government. However Sidious played him like everyone else.
     
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  16. SatineNaberrie

    SatineNaberrie Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 28, 2014
    I think Dooku acted on his own and desired to take Obi-wan as his apprentice. I think Dooku may have looked at Obi-wan as a sort of grandson.
    He didn't kill Obi-wan when he could have. If Anakin didn't block him in AOTC I think Dooku may have stopped before striking Obi-wan and when he brought down the structure that was to distract Yoda.
     
  17. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    ^^ As I said earlier, I kinda believe Dooku may have been trying to recruit Obi Wan. He speaks to him with fondness when telling him how Qui Gon spoke so highly of him etc. But, I do feel he was going to strike him down before Anakin jumped in...

    Obi Wan made it clear it wasn't going to happen, and it would only push Anakin further into the darkside by losing one more person close to him.
     
  18. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    I think the scene deliberately mirrors E5 where Vader tried to get Luke to join him. In each case, it was an honest attempt to team up and overthrow the Emperor. Of course, he wasn't Emperor quite yet in E2, but he had taken control of the Senate.
     
  19. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    in the commentary gl says that "it was going to be a scene with dooku confronting padme but he changed it kenobi". gl says "the one with obi-wan would be more appropriate and to have to dooku tell the truth about what was going on and then create a situation where nobody believes it". gl said "it also allows you to have some sympathy for dooku in that he carries the sympathies of most of the jedi that the senate are corrupt."

    dooku wants to recruit obi to kill sidious with him. just like vader recruiting luke to kill the empeor. it's what sith do. they don't ask permission from sidious first.

    anakin also told padme in rots,"i am more powerful than the emperor i can overthrow him!"
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    That's not what the OP is asking. What's in question is the part where Dooku tells the truth about Sidious, the Trade Federation and the senate. Not when he asks for Kenobi to join him.
     
  21. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    no sidious didn't in my opinion. sidious had nothing to gain. dooku does things that sidious doesn't like. he even force chokes dooku via hologram in tcw.
     
  22. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Makes no sense.

    1) Palpatine was still politically vulnerable. No war protections and additional expanded powers outside of those giving him the authority to create the army. Also, no war to thin out the Jedi Order.
    2) The army itself was small and unprepared, not adequate for what Sidious needed to enact Order 66, should the Jedi act on Dooku's tip and seize the government. Logistically, the clones were also still located on Kamino.

    This was Dooku making a power move - he had no love lost for either the Jedi or the current Republic, but by divulging this to Obi-Wan, it's clear that his faith was not in the Sith at that point, either. It's astounding that he did it, and even more astounding that Sidious did not sense it/address it at some point.
     
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  23. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    It's the nature of the Sith. Of course Sidious knew....Sidious betrayed his own master. Sidious didn't have to tell Dooku. A Sith master expects that their apprentice is scheming to replace him.
     
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  24. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Sure, but betraying a fellow Sith doesn't necessarily equate to helping the Jedi - by revealing this information, Dooku was explicitly giving the Jedi Order information to prevent the rise of the Sith.
     
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  25. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    He didn't reveal the whole truth. The fact that Sidious didn't do anything suggests that he was in on it.