Did TCW change the nightsisters that much from their EU depiction

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by darkchrono, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Just curious if TCW changed them that much. I wasn't sure when or who created them so I went to wookiepedia and they said they were created in a book in '94. So did TCW altar their depiction that much.

    I personally wasn't much of a fan of the nightsisters but mainly because I think Wicca is just weird and that is pretty much what the nightsisters are (star wars version of wicca).
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    The Nightsisters are nothing like Wiccans.

    As far as their EU depiction, I only remember them from The Courtship of Princess Leia and that book was awful in too many ways to count.

    They are a matriarchal society in both depictions and they could also do magic in both depictions. I'm missing details right now that someone else could probably fill in, but I don't remember significant differences other than they were certainly more interesting in the show.
  3. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    I have a feeling using the nightsisters was completely Lucas' daughters idea. I think every single episode she was a part of used the nightsisters in some way. Makes me glad that GL did choose to sell it to a company and not allow his kids to take over.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Did you make this thread for the purpose of bashing the Nightsisters?

    The Nightsisters episodes were some of the only ones in the series to get 10/10s from me so if Katie was involved in that, kudos to her.

    I thought of another book in which they appeared, the Plagueis novel, and they were depicted there pretty much as they did in TCW?
  5. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    No I was curious rather or not TCW changed them much. And in my mind magic spells and mysticism belongs in stories like Lord of the Rings. Not really into it in other types of stories. And I am personally glad Katie didn't get a chance to take over or else we likely would have seen a lot more of that kind of stuff in Star Wars.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm not into magic or mysticism either but I liked the characters, at least until Talzin deserted Ventress.

    I didn't care for the Nightsister characters in the EU. Teneniel Djo was OK, nothing interesting or spectacular. The others I don't remember at all.
  7. Dinos4Ever Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2013
    star 2
    Yeah. IIRC, Wiccans generally tend to stray away from dark magic, while dark magic seems to be what Mother Talzin was all about (zombies, anybody?).
    Senator Kelberry likes this.
  8. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The only thing TCW can be said to have "altered" is the introduction of Zabrak blood to the Dathomir gene pool, and the racial make-up of the Nightsister incarnation that exists under Talzin's leadership. Previously, the Dathomiri were overwhelmingly human or human-descended, whether among the Nightsisters or the various other Witch clans.

    The Witches of Dathomir are also not magic users, they're Force users. They merely delve into the more esoteric aspects of the Force, and do so under an alternative culture that relates the power of the Force to magic as they understand it. Much of their rituals are based upon tradition rather than necessity, as the same results could be achieved by Jedi, Sith, or other Force users outside of the Dathomiri culture without the need for incantations or other extraneous rites.

    And finally, the Nightsisters are not the Star Wars version of Wicca, nor any other shade of Paganism. If anything, the Nightsisters as portrayed by TCW only share similarities with the bastardized Hollywood idea of Wicca popular culture has such a hard time getting away from.
    Contessa, DarthJenari, Gamiel and 3 others like this.
  9. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    cwustudent likes this.
  10. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3

    ITA. While so many find the original book "The courtship of PrincessLeia" weird, I kinda enjoyed the story (heck, it's best than most of the EU stuff...), and Teneniel Djo was one of my favorite characters until a couple of years ago. Reading that book and seeing how they were portrayed in TCW, I sort of have mixed feelings, I imagined them more human-like, hot like they gray skinned bald women. There is this lovely illustration of Teneniel on wookie, showing how I always pictured her/them:

    [IMG]
    Apophis_ likes this.
  11. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Well the reason you always imagined the Dathomiri Witches in the novel as humans is because they were, and canonically still are. And that image is an up-to-date canon depiction of Teneniel Djo's encounter with Luke. While TCW did introduce Zabraks to Dathomir society and the potential genepool, not all Dathomiri possess Zabrak blood, only those who chose to breed with Zabrak mates, along with their subsequent descendants. The Singing Mountain Clan was predominantly human during the period of time Courtship takes place, as is the Nightsister clan under Gethzerion. But now we know from TCW, and furthered by The Last Jedi, that Zabrak-Human hybrids are among the overall populace, occasionally shifting from majority to minority from any given clan at any given time period. I believe it's also stated in the Book of Sith that the Nightsisters under Talzin intentionally bred almost exclusively with Zabrak men under the belief that it would strengthen them.
    Contessa likes this.
  12. Senator Kelberry Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2010
    star 3
    Well I did actually get around to reading "Courtship" recently, something I can thank the Nightsisters arc for motivating me to do, because I wanted to read more about them. The difficulty is the book spends more time on witch culture in general than on the Nightsisters specifically so the only real view we get of how they operate is when the good guys are fighting them, so it's hard to make a direct comparison. If we had seen more of the Nightsister culture in the book, I might have something more to go on. I do plan on buying the Book of the Sith at one point just so I can read Talzin's entry, but I'm not quite there yet.

    The Nightsisters in both the book and the show do both seem to be ready willing and able to do whatever is necessary to put down anyone in their way, and relish doing so in a sinister sort of way. It was easier for me, though, to delve more deeply into what drives the ones in the show because I think it spent more time on them. To use D&D terms, the ones in TCW struck me as more of a Lawful Evil sort than the Chaotic Evil you get from most Sith. The oath Ventress takes in Massacre and the party that follows also suggested to me that Talzin's Nightsisters, at least, while vicious and cruel to outsiders, do actually look out for each other to a certain extent and might even care for each other even at a somewhat basic level. Both Maul's mother (from the book "Darth Plagueis") and Ventress' mother do both seem to show that Nightsisters at least have the potential to care for their children if nothing else.

    At the end of the day, though, it's very easy for me to place both the TCW nightsisters and the "Courtship" Nightsisters in my personal continuity. They generally seemed to have the same attitudes to outsiders, at least, and if their behaviors are somewhat different, that can probably be attributed to different leaders and different times.
    Mia Mesharad likes this.
  13. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    I think the person that drew that picture was watching a Xena episode at the time. I think they sexualized her just a tad too much.
    Last edited by darkchrono, Oct 2, 2013
  14. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    TCW (or Star Wars generally) giving females gratuitously sexualized outfits?? :eek:
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  15. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
  16. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Lol, not saying that it hasn't been done before but you know they are trying to sell stuff to fourteen year olds when they have pictures of girls running around with weapons with their stuff hanging out.
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  17. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    I see nothing hanging out there. I think that's a very pretty drawing.
  18. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    If you don't like mysticism in your stories, then Star Wars isn't for you. If you like science fiction with zero mysticism, then Gene Roddenberry has something right up your alley.
    Last edited by Narutakikun, Oct 2, 2013
  19. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    ST is also full of mysticism FWIW. Whether it's the Squire of Gothos, or Q, or the wormhole life forms (prophets and pah wraiths) there is plenty of mysticism to go round. Dukat in the DS9 finale, when fully given over to the wraiths was pretty much wielding something not unlike Sith powers.

    If you want hard sci if with no mysticism look to the works of Clarke, Asimov, Banks, Heinlien etc.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Oct 3, 2013
  20. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    I don't mind the Force in Star Wars as the force belongs in Star Wars. Now if I were watching an episode of csi and all of a sudden someone started doing force pushes and choking people just by pointing at them then I would be saying now that doesn't belong.
  21. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    It seems to me that showing skin on a lady is considered sexualising, but showing skin on a man is unremarkable...
  22. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah, but consider the frequency of men showing skin compared to women...
    VanishingReality likes this.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7

    The picture didn't bother me, but you are right, it's very imbalanced.
  24. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, women should do more manual labour with their shirts off in public. This will redress the balance.

    Wait, what point were you making?
  25. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    FWIW?