Saga Did TFA make the OT pointless?

I think the point you're trying to make is already what you've stated: that there's no significant difference, dramatically speaking, between the FO and the Empire. And also that this renders the OT pointless and TFA merely a rehash. If there's another point, please correct me.

 

I personally feel that this scene was just another one of JJ's painfully unimaginative, obvious-and-stupid-to-the-point-of-insulting inversions. For me, it isn't different at all, it's just more ripping off the OT, in the cheapest, simplest, dumbest, most obvious way possible.

liek, what if this time the son was bad and da fader was good? Twist.

That's JJ's storytelling. I hate it. But obviously opinions vary wildly.

 

Since it's only a suggestion then we're exaggerating to state that it's made pointless or a slap in the face.

It can't be "the point" of the OT and a mere suggestion that's by no means assured at the same time.

 

I disagree. I felt the scene worked very well, or should I say I found it mindblowingly awesome, goosebumb inducing, transcending, awe inspiring, extremely clever, amazing, and a prime example of JJ's masterful genius, since you seem to love hyperboles. I felt the acting in the scene was great, and the visual story telling some of the best in the saga with the sunlight extuingishing as Kylo Ren makes his faithful decision.

 

Speaking of great visual story telling, I would say Rey's introduction, which almost exclusively used visuals and music is unique and up there with the best visual story telling in the saga. It gave us a good overview of Rey's harsh life, but also shows the ruins of war:

 

I sadly couldn't edit my last post due to another error preventing a connection to the forum. I wanted to add, that the visual introduction of Rey also serves as the visual separation between the fallen Empire, which literally lies in ruins, and their spiritual successors the First Order, who are at this point in the story relegated to a very harsh environment, not unlike the Rebel Alliance in TESB:



These are not the Empire of old controlling the galaxy. These are fanatics in hiding, preparing for war.

 

Yes, yes, YES! How this simple and clear point escapes people is beyond my reckoning.

 

I don't think it has escaped anyone. It just doesn't have the same weight with everyone that it has with you.

 

It's just escaped the people here who keep saying the opposite and declaring that the OT is rendered pointless and been slapped in the face, on that basis.

 

The First Order and the Empire are like Twins.
Arnold "Empire" Schwarzenegger just got all the good stuff and left Danny "First Order" DeVito with all the garbage.

 

But they aren't hiding. They're very open about bombing major population centres on Jakku and Takodana, and unleash their superweapon without a shred of worry. The massive armies and ships also undercut the being relegated to a harsh environment. They've bulit a massive weapon out here, with a great big underground base. It brings to mind this scene more than Hoth:


And the visuals of Jakku are utterly sold out by the rest of the film. The X-wings and Star Destroyers are not hollowed out corpses, they're still being used freely across the galaxy. Rey may delve in the hollowed out nostalgia of the past, but so do all the other characters and factions.

 

They have been hiding SKB, as evidenced by the Resistance’s surprise at its existence.
Of course they aren’t afraid of bringing it out in the open once it’s complete, but its construction has been done in secret. The Republic is caught completely off guard.

 

You mean like the Death Star?

That was built in secret, once it was done they weren't afraid to bring it out. Alderaan was completely off guard.

 

Yeah... So?

 

So it shows no real difference from the way the Empire did things.

 

You say they’re open about bombing “major population centers” on Jakku and Takodana.
While that is true, they do so with confidence because A: they’re desperate to stop the Resistance from finding Luke and B: they know that SKB is nearly complete.

Not because they rule the galaxy.

 

Not at all, they reside in the unknown regions outside of the sphere of influence of the New Republic. They're standing there mobilized and ready to unleash war on the galaxy. Hux's speech and the subsequent attack on the Republic capital is the moment they officially reveal themselves. The SKB and Coruscant images are similar in that they both signal the start of hositilities, but the difference is also obvious. Where the Old Republic enters the war from a wealthy city world, the FO starts it's war on a harsh ice world. I should add, that both Jakku and Tokodana are clearly small settlements on backwater planets, not major population centres controlled by a foreign government. Also, the X-wings and Star Destroyers while similar are obviously newer models that have evolved from older technology. The film makes it very clear, that while the FO attempts to emulate the Empire, they are not the Empire. They are fanatics, as Hux's speech makes abundently clear.

 

I should add, that I think the FO stronghold is more reminiscent of one of those secret Spectre bases from the James Bond films, than an Imperial base. Of course Spectre is also a terrorist organisation plotting to take over the world like the FO.

 

Major population centres? The junkyard and the hidden pirate's nest?

So you don't appreciate the FO's misguided predeliction for the Imperialist's strategic weapons. And their fanatic devotion to that way of making war exposing the shortcomings of that kind of deployment.

Thanks for providing the image that distinguishes the Republic/Empire, with its militarism being formed right in the heart of the established and predominant society of the galaxy., from the FO's illicit congregation of military forces in the margins of the known galaxy. Forced to consolidate its power in an environement almost as harsh as the refuge that the rebels had to take in ESB.

 

Fanatics about what? The FO's true political motivations are never revealed to us. All we know about them is that they oppose the republic.

We are all but led to assume they are a carryover from the Empire and share the same ideals.

 

Well, then that’s likely what they’re fanatical about, isn’t it?

 

Yet the Empire never opposed the Republic. The Empire was the Republic. A corrupted stage of the Republic, having insidiously been transformed from the inside. The FO actively and publically opposes the Republic. It's like the difference between a cancer and a machine gun.

 

It's a secret, Darthalterer. You need to bea paid up member in the double secret JJ fanclub before you can have any idea what the FO and Hux might be fanatical about or why these Neo-Imperialist fanatics (whoops! ) might be opposed to new Republic.

 

In what ways do the beliefs of the FO differ from the Empire? And at what point does the film make this clear?

 

Who says their beliefs differ???