Did the abundance of themes hinder the ROTJ score?

First off, dudes (that means not you, stri ), let me set one thing straight. I love the ROTJ score. In fact it's my second favorite behind TESB! I'm not bashing it, just analysing it. With that out of the way, then...
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When I was listening to my ROTJ CD today, I noticed something. A minute of music never goes by without the stating of one or sometimes 2 or 3 themes. For ANH, there were only about 4 themes of motifs: Luke's Theme, Leia's, the Force, and the Imperial motif. TESB added Yoda, Vader, and Han & Leia. ROTJ then packed in several more: Palpatine, the ewoks, and Jabba. By the time we get to ROTJ, that's a lot of themes! And since there are so many themes, that seems to make for less "original" cues. For example: Here They Come, the Asteroid Field, and the Battle of Hoth, etc.

Now, I'm not saying ROTJ didn't have ANY great "original" cues. Fight With the TIE Fighters and the the Endor forest battle are unbelievable, but that's just part of the movie. For just about all of the other parts it's just themes playing in and out.

For an example: The Emperor's Arrival/Yoda Dies.
It plays 5 themes almost back to back to back to- you get the point. It goes Vader's Theme, The Emperor's Theme, Luke's Theme, Yoda's Theme, the Force Theme. And that's not even the whole track! Leia's Theme even makes it's way in there!

There are points when I love the way the themes themselves tell the story in ROTJ, but other times when I wish there was something more original in there.

So, what're your thoughts?

 

i actually disagree. i think the fimiliar themes get their fair share in ROTJ. It's a great score. (and i know you think the same and wasnt arguing against you)

 

I sort of agree. By ROTJ, there are so many themes that when they appear, they seem to just do that--appear. There isn't enough development in them. Think of The Imperial March in ESB, how many different ways is it played in there? By the time we get to Rescue From Cloud City/Hyperspace, it is so twisted that it feels completely different from the concert version of the march, yet it blends in completely. Or think of the theme for The Force/Ob1 in ANH, how many times is it played with strings lightly before being full blown? In RotJ, we get Light of the Force, and it feels like an appearance of the Force theme, not a development. Not trying to blame Williams or the movie, as it fits with the closing chapter of the trilogy in its nature. It's more like a summary, while the other two are still building.

 

We must remember that Williams wrote the soundtrack as program music. (It can tell the story by itself.) He gave each character what amounts to a theme song. Those songs get manipulated to fit the action and mood of the scene being played. In this setting, you need to keep to the main themes because you do see the same few characters throughout the movie.

 

Sigh...ROTJ's music is superb...I still wish I coudl get a hodl of the ROTJ full sountrack without having to buy the whole set- which is trés expensive :S

And I never noticed it having too many themes in it...I'll hafta pay attention next time I watch, though.

 

I see your point, Sithman. However, I thought that ROTJ had some pretty good "original" cues in it, which you yourself pointed out. All the serious action scenes (except the Sail Barge, more on that later) had good cues that didn't quote the character themes any more than other SW action cues.

As for the Yoda death scene, you might recall that all the Yoda scenes in ESB were also scored as a series of theme statements with very little "original" sequences in them.

For that matter, "Here They Come" is pretty much a series of Rebel Fanfares with bridges, ending with a Death Star motif. Go figure...

I believe the Emperor's theme is developed beautifully in the film, from low undertones when he first arrives to the incredible statement before the throw.

The Ewok theme was also parceled out quite well in the score, IMHO.

The only theme that seems to suffer from the effects of "theme over-abundances" in ROTJ is "Luke and Leia". Here's a theme that got its own concert suite, is stated in the end credits, and yet appears only twice in the entire film, each time for less than a minute. No development, no real variation, and both times it segues into "Han and Leia", which usually sounds better anyway. And some ppl still consider it their favorite SW theme!

What does bother me about the idea of "theme appearances" in ROTJ is the fact that at least one "original" piece, "Sail Barge Assault", was replaced by a piece that was more a mix of themes, at the request of GL. I think this might hint that what seems to bother you about the ROTJ score stems from GL's personal preference of hearing the themes quoted more often than less.

 

I think ROTJ has no own memorable famous Theme.

Does the Emperor's Theme count as a landmark-Theme for RotJ?
I mean, ANH has the Main Theme
TESB has Imperial March
TPM has Duel of the Fates
AotC, I think, will have the Love Theme(maybe?)
What does ROTJ have? Emperor's Theme is rarely heard in public, i.e. Football, Baseball, Icehockey or other sport events, which use music and end up as news-item in TF.N/Holonet. Neither is The Ewok Parade.

 

A film isn't going to have an entire 5 minute theme(like what would appear in the CD) run through its entirety in a film. You're going to hear snippets here and there. JW is an artist, he dabbed a lil here a lil there thereby creating what is possibly the greatest of the Star Wars soundtracks.........the greatest

 

OK I just went through and put together a playlist of all my filmscore mp3s and decided not to include ALL the tracks from all 4 Star Wars scores. Instead, I picked through them and picked the tracks I really like. ROTJ had more tracks than any of the other Star Wars films except TPM. It's just the most listenable, it flows the best and has the most masterful weaving of the various themes along with new material. Nothing else in the OT touches it.

It could use a remix though cuz the sound quality is awful.