Saga Did the galaxy know that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?

It seems quite a basic question, but having followed Star Wars for 15 years, I still don't quite know. Of course, the Republic was reformed into the Empire, but was anyone beyond the Moffs (and a select few) aware that the Emperor was a Sith? And Vader too?

If so, it does strike me as a little odd that given the galaxies previous troubles with the Sith, that they'd welcome them so openly as a substitute for the Jedi.

Obviously it's not quite that simple, the population didn't have much choice, but still, I'm curious

 

As far as I recall, the general idea seems to be that Vader's fairly open about his Sithliness - but the Emperor is not.

At least in the EU. We'll have to see how Rebels handles it.

 

Yeah, agreed. Regardless of what people think of Rebels, it's literally the only canonical thing that exists now between ROTS and ANH.

 

I think Tarkin knew but the average person didn't know until after ROTJ.

 

I remember reading something about this on Wookieepedia, apparently the empire had made loads of propaganda to make the galaxy forget about the jedi and the sith in general or at least the empire denied the fact that Vader and Sidious are sith. They also tried to make the people forget that tere was once a time where the republic ruled the galaxy.

 

There's nothing given in any of the current canon to indicate one way or another.

 

Interesting question. As kubricklynch said there is nothing to indicate one way or the other.


There apparently was still concern as late as ANH about star system opinion's of the Empire's actions as in the conference room it's stated "If word of this gets out it could cause sympathy for the rebellion". Given this I'd bet Palps and Vader would want to maintain a low profile as far as being Sith is concerned.

 

Lol How can you just make a bunch of people forget an era that lasted thousands of years, that they all partially lived through? That`s like trying to make everyone forget about everything before the 80`s.

 

Sith?? I don't think so...

Tarkin said to Vader:
"The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

So, Vader was considered a Jedi who had chose NOT to betray the Senate, as did the traitors like Windu, Yoda, Kenobi, etc...

And for Palpatine, he has conquered his place as Supreme Chanceler and Emperor by fooling everyone.
It woud not be wise to revel himself as a Sith to the galaxy.
He even told Vader to kill Gunray and the others who knew his dark identity.

He told the Senate that the attempt on his life has left him scarred and deformed.

A normal human, with no Force abilities, had survived a Jedi strike.
Wasn't it amazing? He was indeed a great leader, a legend!
Once again, revel himself as a Sith would ruin his bravery.

That's why it wouldn't be wise for them to admit they were Sith.

People was afraid of Palpatine for his vast army, strong will and deadly belic weapons. He was protecting the galaxy by unleashing fire at anyone who opposed him. No Force required...

So, my vision is: Palpatine was considered a normal human, and Vader was considered the last Jedi who had never betrayed the Senate.

 

The general public might have thought so - but in the ANH novelization, Tarkin's council refer to Vader as a "Sith Lord" and in the ROTJ novelization Luke thinks of Vader as a "Jedi turned Sithlord" as well.

 

I doubt the galaxy at large knew Palpatine was a Sith. If there was widespread anti-Jedi sentiment due to people disliking the idea of this band of Force-users being in a perceived position of power...well then they also wouldn't like the idea of a Sith ruling over the galaxy.

 

Yeah, but as GL himself stressed, the Empire didn't defeat the Republic, the Empire was the Republic. Even as early as the 1976 SW novelisation, it was stressed that the Republic had become corrupt, then taken over by power-hungry individuals, including a 'Senator Palpatine' who declared himself Emperor, promising "reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic". ROTS cemented exactly how Palps reformed the corrupt Republic into the First Galactic Empire to ensure a 'safe, secure society'. It wasn't a coup, it was a Reformation.

Palpatine didn't destroy the Republic, he claimed that he had a way to fix it and declared himself Emperor to do so - and the public lapped it up, as they always do. Just like any RL dictator, be it a Caesar, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin - or even a Nixon, if he'd been given a chance, as many in the early 1970s worried.

Details like the Jedi and the Sith - the Jedi were declared traitors, the Sith had probably faded into the realm of urban myth or fairytales by that time, as far as the public were concerned (I've often debated in the CT forum that Darth Vader wasn't a public figure until around ESB).
Orwell's 1984 covers just about everything else when it comes to mass denial of history. It's frightening how often you run into people completely ignorant of the causes and outcome of WWII - not teenagers, but people in their 30s. A few years ago while having lunch with some workmates, I was horrified to discover that most thought that WWII was more like a sequel to WWI, i.e. Good guys vs Nazis, Part Two.

When it comes to the GFFA, the difference between the 'Old Republic' served by the Jedi, and this new 'Empire' ruled quite differently, there's a great line in A Game of Thrones which sums up just how the general populace regard such things. Daenarys Targaryen has spent her life convinced by her brother that the people of Westeros wish for the return of the Targaryen Dynasty. Her right-hand man, Jorah Mormont squashes such fantasies:

 

What you're saying is inconsistent. The Empire existed for two decades, the Republic and the Sith existed for millennia. It would be impossible to make a galaxy of trillions forget the history of their own galaxy.

 

Interestingly enough, there was an idea to have security droids filming the duel between Yoda and Palpatine, broadcasting it across Coruscant (or perhaps the whole galaxy?)

Fairly certain if people saw their new emperor wielding a red lightsaber, shooting lightning from his fingertips, and tossing Senate pods like frisbees, then they'd at least get a tad suspicious

 

Ki-Adi-Mundi said: "The Sith have been extinct for a millennium!"

The galaxy considered the Clone Wars a conflict between separatists and the Republic. It was not Sith related...

The Jedi never told anyone about the Sith clouding ther vision, as Yoda said:
"Only the Dark Lords of the Sith know of our weakness. If informed, the Senate is, multiply, our adversaries will."

Then the Jedi are killed, hunted and considered traitors...
The war ends, Palpatine is the Emperor and................ the Sith are still extinct for a millennium!

As I said before about Palpatine....

 

Part of my point was that a sizeable proportion of that galaxy of trillions were probably ignorant of the history to begin with, or at least the specifics. As far as they knew, the Republic simply underwent a change of management and a bit of a bureaucratic reshuffle, the Sith had been gone for 1000 years anyway (I don't believe it was even close to common knowledge that Palpatine was a Sith Lord), and the Jedi had supposedly gone as bad as the corrupt Republic - which was corrupt.

For the average shlub, such affairs mattered little, compared to the next moisture harvest or getting a new hyperdrive - Luke's deleted conversation with Biggs, then his discussion with Obi-Wan ("it's just so far away from here") reflect exactly such an attitude. Then the GCW literally turned up at his doorstep and everything changed.

 

Yeah, and consider that most people, even if they were around back then, had never actually encountered a Jedi in person. Han was about ten years old during the Clone Wars, so he probably had some idea about Jedi, but after nineteen years of propaganda and a lack of Jedi in the galaxy, why should he believe they had magic powers? As far as he's concerned, they were just a bunch of weirdos who dressed in robes, served as generals, then tried to take over the government like any other group of delusional power-hungry freaks. If the Force was so powerful, how come they all got wiped out?

 

Nothing you said refutes the fact that it would be impossible to make the galaxy forget that the Sith existed. Darth_Nub Ignorant people exist in any society. Like in whatever country you're from, I'm sure the average person doesn't know the entire history of the nation, but regardless if they wanted to know it, the information is out there. Also if you asked any scholar on the subject, they would know it as well. In a civilization as vast, old and technologically advanced as the Republic, it's inconceivable that the information about the Sith and the various galactic wars they have caused is inaccessible.

 

That's very true, and would have applied to the GFFA, but it may have been more the case that the populace at large were more indifferent than ignorant of the history. Many of those who weren't became involved in the Rebellion, hence why Palpatine's Empire only ruled for two decades before the Alliance overthrew it, while the Republic ruled for centuries, even millennia at a time. The propaganda machine was there, it just didn't work well enough - because, as you said, too much information was out there - but it would have done the job to a certain extent on large sections of the population.

As for the original topic, however, I don't believe it was common knowledge that the Empire was ruled by a Sith Lord, that'd be a deal breaker, and even if anyone claimed it was so, it'd be the sort of thing people would dismiss as far-fetched mud-slinging - like accusing Barack Obama of being a member of a Satan-worshipping branch of the Freemasons. In TPM, even the Jedi Council are initially sceptical that the Sith still exist.

Vader's a different case, but EU aside, it's unclear how well-known his very existence was outside the corridors of power, let alone his being a Sith.

Apart from extras in the background in Mos Eisley and Cloud City, we simply don't see much of the 'common people' in the OT - the only scenes that actually deal with everyday life under the Empire are at the Lars homestead, and the deleted ones at Anchorhead, and they indicate a real indifference towards the galactic struggle by the average citizen, deliberately so.

 

Well I would assume that the citizens of the galaxy would know of the Jedi and Sith. But to believe they were still in existence is another. That was part of Sidious' plan after converting the republic into the empire was to make the citizens think that the empire really went out and destroyed the Jedi. I think only people close within the highest ranking imperials would know of Anakin being Vader. I don't think anyone, or very, very few people knew of Sidious' true identity. Even the troops aboard the death star watching Vader fight Kenobi with light sabers would just assume that they were both Jedi, or one Jedi and one fallen Jedi. I don't think the average imperial ever connected Vader to the Sith.

 

From what I remember from the EU, and my impressions from the movies, the galaxy still believes Palps is just a man, a politician... where as Vader is supposed to be his force using enforcer. I can't remember 100%, but I'm pretty sure the audience was lead to believe mostly the same if just watching the OT... I think the only time we actually get confirmation that the Emporer is a user of the force is when he hits Luke with the lightning, correct?

 

The scene between Vader and the Emperor's hologram in ESB (both versions) makes it clear that the Emperor knows enough about the Force to be considered a 'Force user', we just don't know to what extent until ROTJ - but Vader's deference to him clearly indicates that he's not someone to be messed with, as opposed to earlier draft versions of SW which almost suggest that the Sith Lords and their master are the real power behind the Empire, not the puppet with the title of 'Emperor'.

 

Most people probably had no idea that Palpatine was a Sith, and there is a lot in the old EU, that he basically he hid behind the whole "weak, old man" disguise. Now probably those within the military and such(especially the higher up you went), probably knew, or had at least some idea. The same probably can be said of Vader also.

 

Both Palpatine and Vader are not as open about their Sith natures as the Sith of the past, one can presume. Sure, Vader might be understood to be all that's left of the Jedi religion, but to draw on Legends here, specifically KOTOR II, the common man (or indeed the common Grand Moff), don't really see Sith as anything but Jedi with a different philosophy, hence terms like 'Jedi Civil War' being applied to wars between Sith Empire and Republic. So Vader was both seen as a Jedi, one of few who remained 'loyal,' but his title and role of 'Dark Lord of the Sith' or 'Sith Lord' was equally well known if not more so.

Palpatine, on the other hand, kept his allegiance to the dark side under wraps to a much greater degree. Even the ROTJ novelisation makes it clear that few know of how his mastery of the dark side was what allowed him to rise to, and maintain, power. The common citizen probably had very little idea of what a Sith was (from complete ignorance to vague awareness of them being some sort of Jedi sect in the EU), beyond knowledge of Vader being something called a Sith Lord, but even those who did wouldn't have known Palpatine was one, and wouldn't have known he was a Force user either. Again this is EU, but Wizards of the Coast had Palpatine use telekinesis to fell a fleeing attempted assassin during a speech, and the crowd - and the media - were confused and speculated that the 'traitor' merely fell, stricken in mortal fear, at being spied by the glorious Emperor.

Indeed, the character of Espaa Valorum is quite clearly merged with the weak Cos Da**** to create Palpatine, a move I'm glad was made. Puppet rulers are interesting and perhaps have more resonance in terms of many people's fears about government today, but in an epic, mythic tale like Star Wars, having the visible figure of power being the great evil that must be cast down is more appropriate.

 

Exactly. It was a part of his deception and manipulation.