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PT Did the Jedi look for Sidious before Geonosis?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by The One Above All, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    I agree with the bolded part.

    Where we're disagreeing is semantics, maybe? The "battle" for me starts at first contact, and ends when one side (or in the case of Rey/Kylo, both sides) flees or is physically unable to continue. Obi-Wan did not flee, and while he was in a tight spot without his weapon, he was never physically unable to continue. Maul was chopped in half at the bottom of a reactor, and physically unable to continue. He outperformed Obi-Wan, but he did not defeat him.
     
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    That's all my point has ever been. Right up to when Obi-wan saves his own ass, Maul had won. Whatever else doesn't matter there.
     
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  3. Mindless Monster

    Mindless Monster Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 4, 2014
    Maul defeated Obiwan, but was arrogant in not finishing the job. That's insanely obvious.
     
  4. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I didn't know destroying lightsabers was the main goal of dueling...

    They weren't overwhelmed by numbers. If you've watched the film then you're fully aware that Yoda was attacked by only 2 troops and Obi-Wan was attacked by a rocket.
    You're right. Last Sunday the Patriots had won right up until the Eagles saved their own asses too.[face_rofl]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  5. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
    There’s no leaving aside anything. Obi-Wan defeated Maul. He won the fight & the battle. As Rocky would say “It ain’t over till it’s over”. Maul landed a telling blow by knocking Obi-Wan down into that shaft, but the fight wasn’t finished. This was a fight to the death. Last man standing. Maul lost. Same with Anakin in RotS. He showed more skill during the fight but Obi-Wan defeated him in the final act of the fight. Keeping a cool head is a skill in itself. That’s how Obi-Wan was the victor on both occasions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    I was talking about in front of the Temple.
     
  7. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    They weren't at the temple when Order 66 occurred. They were on Kashyyk and Utapau respectively.
     
  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Yes, but I was also referring to the Temple confrontation. But in the majority of the attacks during Order 66, it was surprise. Obi-wan survives because the rocket didn't hit him squarely and Yoda survived because he sensed all the surprised reactions and deaths at once, which warned him.
     
  9. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    But they weren't at the Temple during Order 66. You originally said:

    So what does now pointing out non-Order 66 attacks have to do with the conversation?
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    The point is that sheer numbers doesn't constitute automatic victory. Two Jedi could take out a dozen Clonetroopers. But during Order 66, the other Jedi were killed because of the element of surprise. Not sheer numbers. That's why most of the deaths depicted are those who were caught unaware. Ki-Adi is the only one depicted as being killed by sheer numbers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  11. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    He is also the only one that dies, who actually fights back. At least in the film.
     
  12. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Who said it does? (STRAWMAN ARGUMENT)

    Many were killed by sheer numbers. Including most of the Jedi in the Temple, who KNEW the assault was there as soon as Anakin killed the first Jedi.

    So we have a case study right here that disproves your theory.

    So the Jedi should have sent more support for Qui-Gon and numbers may have helped him survive and them capture Maul without casualties.
     
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  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    And as I said, numbers don't mean much. Ask the Jedi Posse who had four Jedi and were beaten by a Sith Lord.
     
  14. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    Except when the Jedi say they don't have enough Jedi to do one thing then think it wrong to send more than two Jedi for another thing. Numbers matter as and when the Jedi say so.

    Numbers played a big role on Geonosis.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  15. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Yeah, there is some strange ill-logic going around here.
    1) Numbers don't always win battles, therefore numbers NEVER wins battles and thus the Jedi need not send more than two Jedi to fight an army and a sith lord.
    Not following this at all.
    As you said, numbers played a huge part in the Jedi getting decimated like they did.
    Had they faced 20 battle droids, I doubt they would have lost.

    2) The guy that wound up in pieces at the bottom of a shaft won the fight.
    You can win battles in more than one way, outfighting or out-thinking your opponent.
    Or you get lucky and the opponent suddenly decides to hold a massive Idiot Ball.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    I never said that numbers don't win battles. I said it is not always a given that numbers equal victory.
     
  17. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    They seek him here, they seek him there
    Those Jedi seek him everywhere
    Is he in heaven or is he in hell?
    That demned elusive Sith Lord-el
     
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  18. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    That's a strawman argument. Absolutely no one here has stated that "numbers equal victory." You don't have an intelligent rebuttal for the well known fact that numbers provide a strategical advantage that any smart combatant utilizes, including the Jedi when they care enough about the outcome; so your only option is to make up a shadow argument to make your point sound sensible.

    I repeat, absolutely no one here has stated that "numbers equal victory." In fact I went through an analogy of seatbelts in a desperate attempt to help you understand the concept of preparation and insurance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  19. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    And as I pointed out, the Jedi were confident that two of their own could deal with Maul. Just as it was pointed out that sending only two Jedi to confront Dooku a final time was sufficient. So, you cannot have it both ways.
     
  20. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    They didn't sent "two Jedi to confront Dooku" they sent two Jedi as part of a military operation to rescue the Chancellor in the midst of a planetary invasion. More mental gymnastics to protect your crumbling narrative.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Not mental gymnastics. Two Jedi, not five or ten Jedi. Two Jedi and a squadron of Clonetrooper pilots.
     
  22. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 26, 2009
    I was just wondering about this too. At the end of TPM, Mace and Yoda clearly acknowledged that another Sith was somewhere else in the galaxy (aka right in front of them at Qui-Gon's funeral). The fact that he's hiding in plain sight speaks to Palpatine's cunning, and the complacency of the Jedi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  23. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    In a military operation to save the Chancellor in the midst of a planetary invasion. Btw for all we know they did send more Jedi and Obi-Wan/Anakin got there first. In comparison Qui-Gon was going to a conflict during galactic peacetime where plenty of Jedi could have been spared.
     
  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Now who's making things up?
     
  25. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    What conflict?

    It was a nothing trade dispute where negotiations were going to be short as the Trade Federation are cowards.