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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Did The Last Jedi change your view of the new SW canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Diego Lucas, Dec 14, 2017.

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Did The Last Jedi change your view of the new SW canon?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2018.
  1. Yes

    49 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. No

    52 vote(s)
    46.8%
  3. I don't have a answer now.

    10 vote(s)
    9.0%
  1. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The Clone wars seemed to get more serious as they went on(even though I didn't watch the show) though Rebels just seems silly and rather uninspiring.
     
  2. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Can good stories never be told during the Galactic Civil War because we know the Rebels win?

    Can good stories never be told before Episode 1, because we know the Republic will eventually fall?

    Can good stories never be told about Han and Luke because we know how their stories end?

    Just because we know how a story ends doesn't mean that good stories arent possible in the middle.
     
    RavagerFish likes this.
  3. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Han went back to smuggling after leaving his wife and Luke's academy failed and he became a hermit. That isn't very fertile ground for story material nor does it do justice to the characters.
     
  4. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    Oh yeah, the old EU neeeeeever had wayward kids, hijinx, and goofyness.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    I've always thought someone should post this, context-free, on some board that has nothing to do with Star Wars and see what reactions they get.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  6. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    You're missing my entire point.

     
  7. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The Resistance is the rebellion 2.0, the First Order is the empire without the actual menace, seriously the speech in TLJ that one Imperial officer gave was ridiculous and just outright bad.

    There is very little in the NuCanon that can be used at least post ROTJ as interesting storytelling.

    And that's because the ST is filled to the brim with OT callbacks, Easter eggs, and nostalgic appeal. It is neither ambitious nor original and is frankly bad.

    I know my opinion on this isn't impartial and others may disagree but the NuCanon has little potential.

    I have no issue with stories set in the middle, after all I love the prequels.

    I'm not enthused at all with the ST or NuCanon and honestly it doesn't appeal to me.
     
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  8. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    That doesn't change my argument though. My argument is this:

    Which you agree with:

    You don't have to like the NuCanon or the sequel trilogy to agree that good stories can be created even with predetermined end points for characters and plots.
     
  9. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    The prequels were different in that prior to 1999 no one besides Lucas knew the story strokes. We didn't know for example Anakin was a slave, Obi Wan's master was instrumental in Anakin becoming a Jedi, or what the clone wars entailed exactly. The OT was very vague about prequel era stuff.

    However the ST has made it clear what happened post Endor in the NuCanon. Luke starts an academy and fails. The Empire was defeated in a big battle a year after Endor(I still hate this the old eu version was infinitely more sensible, Han and Leia had one child and they grew apart and Han eventually left, the FO was formed at some point in the unknown regions, etc...

    Basically we have a good idea what happened in between ROTJ and TFA Nucanon Timeline.

    The prequels were different in that the vagueness opened up story possibilities . In this case-the background is more understood and less amiable to good stories.
     
  10. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Again.

    That. Isn't. The. Point.

    I think there are a lot of stories that would still be cool in the NuCanon. You don't. That's fine. That's not the point of what i'm talking about. I was using Star Wars as an example to illustrate what I'm talking about, which is the concept that a story with a known end can still be good. That's it.
     
  11. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I wonder what percentage of people here experienced Star Wars before the prequels?
     
  12. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    This is opinion being presented as fact. It implies everyone is unhappy with Last Jedi, (which they aren't) that the Last Jedi wasn't a fertile/imaginative take on Star Wars (which is was, regardless of how successful you feel it achieved it), or that temporary setbacks on the part of heroes renders past accomplishments null (which is patently false).
     
  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    They have 22-24 years without a major galactic conflict erupting.

    Used in the right way i.e. without any idiotic, heavy-handed "foreshadowing" of the future, there should be space enough to craft stories.

    Like how a Pirate Alliance wielding a Super Star Destroyer was taken down.
     
    BigAl6ft6, nancipants, Gamiel and 2 others like this.
  14. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    I'd say I agree with whoever above said that by this point, I'm at the point where I'll still go see the new Star Wars movies on opening day, but really don't have a ton of interest in any of the spinoff materials. For all the issues I have with them, the movies have at least been worth the excitement of seeing once, in theaters, on opening night with a lot of other people sharing that same energy. I rewatched Rogue One when it came to Netflix and I rewatched TFA prior to seeing TLJ and I didn't regret spending the time doing those. They're nowhere near the level of the OT but they're fine.

    The books and comics, however, have generally failed to grab me. They're cliched, replays of stuff I've seen before, not relevant at all to the movies (not that I ever expected it to be anything other) or worst of all, just uninteresting. (The rabid NEU fanbase is also kind of a turnoff, but it's nothing I haven't already seen as an EU fan from the movie purists in the 90s/early aughts before that kind of died down.) There have been a few gems - the Threepio Phantom Arm comic, a few of the Journey to TFA and From a Certain Point of View short stories - but I think it's pretty telling that those are in general small-scale, one-off works that have a very tangential connection at best to the GFFA. The Bazine short story, for example, I thought was pretty good but if just a few names in it were changed it could be completely removed from the Star Wars setting and the story would not have changed at all.

    I guess maybe things might change after IX but right now it's clear that the majority of the new EU is constrained by both padding out the time between movies while not really being able to do anything around the movies for fear of stepping on whatever Disney might want to make two decades from now. I'm not really expecting something like the NJO again, but something like the trilogies you'd get in the Bantam era would be nice - a short series that's self-contained, meaning it might not have a giant impact on the universe but also means it stands on its own rather than being a "Journey to Star Wars Episode XXIV" tie-in. If that ever comes about I'd give it a try, but by this point a lot of the spinoff stuff is not stuff I can justify spending my money on any more.

    That being said, I do think that Battlefront II was a bit of a signalpost for the NEU, though - the plot of the single-player campaign was not great, but it was the first time there's been a NEU work that essentially builds off of prior NEU works (Shattered Empire and Aftermath) rather than primarily building off of/towards a movie or show.
     
  15. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I agree with the general sentiment that the new EU novels, comics, et al. haven't really grabbed me, but the thing is, from my perspective this isn't something that's new for the new canon. The books in particular have generally sucked or been of inferior quality for the past decade if not longer.

    There's a distinction to be made in the significance of the novels now versus before; there's no nucanon "Thrawn trilogy" let alone NJO, but the ones we received before the reboot were pretty awful anyway, so that might be good? Hopefully they'll take their time if they go down that road instead of following the nine book unstructured mess they did before.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  16. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    I agree with the books not being that good isn't really new, but I think the current status quo differs due to the production of new screen stuff, not only movie but TV. And I'm not even talking about the basic fact that the books are no longer the "main" medium for telling stories, but rather they're support for other mediums. Outside of Aftermath III, I think every book last year was setup to TLJ, Rebels, or Battlefront. Which isn't an indication of quality, but it means there's less range to do something outside the movie era or with characters completely disconnected from the movie events.

    The comics, however, I will take a stand and say are quality-wise worse than they were even in the last few years of Dark Horse. And I think even ignoring quality, the creativity and range of the new Marvel era is indisputably smaller in scope than under DH.
     
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  17. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I'm not as big a comic reader which is why I keyed in on the books.

    I think things will open up when the film trilogy is done. It's been mentioned elsewhere that it took until 8 years after ROTJ to get HTTE and DE.

    With the PT, there was a lot more contemporary work, but it would set up Ki-Adi-Mundi being a polygamist and then get completely tripped up by Episode II. They aren't going to restrict directors for the big money maker.
     
  18. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Haha, I'm waiting for a director to demand Asajj Ventress be in his movie. :p

    Story Group: We're so sorry Mr. Tarantino, but Ventress is just not available for your 'Kill Bill' remake, Star Wars style. You see, there was this novel called 'Dark Disciple'...
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  19. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I'm sure that happened with GL more than once.
     
  20. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    GL was acting only on a very limited timeframe, the 13 years between TPM and ROTS. The rest of the timeline was free for EU creators to do as they wish.

    However, with the 'Star Wars Story' films, we now have the possibility of any director making a movie at any point in the timeline. That's why the new EU is so restricted.
     
  21. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I don't think the anthology films are restricting much -- like I said, I believe once Episode IX is done, it will open up.

    OTOH, I do think for characters like Boba Fett, Yoda, Obi-Wan, etc., we'll get the moratorium on exploring parts of their histories if they're considering doing an anthology film around them. But even though they're supposedly doing an Obi-Wan anthology next, that didn't stop Marvel from doing a comic book around him and Anakin.

    They're probably taking a more careful approach altogether; before Rogue One, we had like 5 different Death Star plans stories. For events that are referenced in the films or of some significance they might be more careful to tell that story if there's the potential for the film. Which I don't think is negative... given we had 3 or so bounty hunters at Ord Mantell and several different DS plan heists, among other things, in Legends.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  22. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Oh, Jedi Council Forums...
     
  23. Shadowrain10

    Shadowrain10 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    I personally don't believe that every answer should be on screen, for the simple fact that it could drive book sales, again, I have to point to Rogue One and the two main books that relate to it. They kept us in the dark about the characters' backstory because it wasn't relevant to the overall story. I don't want to see the movies get bogged down with details that have already been explained simply because the majority don't want to pick up a book.
     
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  24. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    I agree that the movies shouldn't get bogged down with too many details. I think audiences put too much importance on Snoke for example (in TFA the identity of Rey's parents is presented as a mystery, but Leia and friends act like they already know who Snoke is and no one in universe questions his identity). And I don't think there was room in the film for Phasma to start monologue-ing about her backstory on a wasteland planet. I think enough hints were dropped about the state of the galaxy, what with "allies in the outer rim" and similar comments.

    But I very much disagree with your last sentence, which seems to imply its the audience's duty to pick up a tie in book. Books like catalyst offering additional information is fine, but in general the audience shouldn't have to do homework to understand the movie.
     
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  25. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Yes; I have no desire to read a book about Phasma now that I know how pointless her character is, I'm struggling for motivation to pick up much of the NuCanon at the moment apart from anything Claudia Gray writes because she's brilliant.
     
    Jester J Binks likes this.