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Lit Did The Last Jedi change your view of the new SW canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Diego Lucas, Dec 14, 2017.

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Did The Last Jedi change your view of the new SW canon?

This poll will close on Jul 14, 2018 at 11:11 AM.
  1. Yes

    49 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. No

    52 vote(s)
    46.8%
  3. I don't have a answer now.

    10 vote(s)
    9.0%
  1. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Yeah cue my comment earlier in the thread about this weird aversion to adapting books to movies because of "Canon issues" even though there are book adaptations of the movies..
     
  2. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I'd say it's easier to adapt a film to a book than to adapt a book to a film with regard to the liberties you are able to take due to the medium. You need to take many more liberties with cutting down a novel to a film whereas with an adaptation of a film to a book you're adding material. Which is actually where they get in trouble where the added material conflicts with later film material, e.g. repeated events.

    If they were to ever adapt a novel to a film, it would be much worse than that in terms of being faithful to the source.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  3. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    I'm not sure I agree to be honest. Adapting a movie into a book generally means having to go a lot deeper into characters and add a lot more new material, whereas going book to film, the book can essentially serve as a complex script that you can cut pieces out of.
     
  4. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Generally in film adaptations of novels, you have to cut entire characters out. But those characters still served some essential purpose in the story which needs to be replicated, so a different character is given that purpose. So characters become composited. It's not as easy as deleting scenes. Even removing scenes there might be essential information from a scene that's otherwise nonessential that needs to be moved to another scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  5. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    I see what you mean, and I'll agree to that extent. I guess we're looking at it from two different angles but both agreeing the book is generally more complex. You're looking at it from the PoV of what that means for translating it onto the screen, whereas I'm looking at it from the angle of delving deeper into characters where motivations or thoughts weren't spelled out on screen.

    I think for example Lost Stars would be quite easy to translate onto the screen. Small 'cast', relatively straight forward, linear plot. Would be brilliant as an animated series of say 10-12 episodes. Would be a cool trial run for whether other YA material could be adapted into animation.
     
  6. mnjedi

    mnjedi Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    A movie (or TV) adaptation of the Underworld: The Yavin Vassilika comics would be a blast.

    I'm under no delusions that it will ever happen. But really, it would be the best, the absolute best.
     
    Nom von Anor likes this.
  7. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    That comic is responsible for the name of the book Traitor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  8. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Exactly, that's the problem with trying to stuff new material into a full timeline; you have to make all sorts of retcons that destroy the original intent of the stories. It's far more preferable to keep the stories preserved in their own bubble where they can't be hurt by this sort of tampering.

    Except Lost Tribe of the Sith would largely be pointless without the pay-off from FOTJ; Cloak of Deception includes Vergere, and what's her deal without Traitor; there are plenty of knock-on effects taking a huge chunk out of the timeline has on other books, which is why Lucasfilm simply wiped the slate clean.
     
    Darth_Duck likes this.
  9. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Not really? Can just have those plots pay off in a different way.
     
  10. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Pablo had a great Twitter thread about preserving the original intent of stories, which has been deleted by now, but it was a particularly excellent perspective on this sort of thing.
     
  11. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Are you able to paraphrase?
     
  12. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Its kind of funny since I think the intent of rotj was for leia to be a jedi...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
    SpecForce Trooper likes this.
  13. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I think the intent of TESB was for Leia and Luke to potentially get together.
     
  14. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    He used the example of a short narrative piece from one of the WEG sourcebooks about the isolationist Quarren, who hate how the Mon Calamari have gone out into the galaxy when they should be focusing on their own planet -- until of course the Empire comes along and enslaves Mon Cals and Quarren alike, so this proud Quarren is forced to leave his homeworld. Pablo pointed out it was intended to explain why we didn't see the species prior to ROTJ, I believe (and established there are relatively few Quarren out in the wider galaxy).

    However, as more and more material was released, that original intent got lost in favour of using recognisable aliens in stories, until there were tons of Quarren wandering around (and especially when the prequels came around), so the whole point of that rather wonderfully-written story got lost through the march of time and the expanding universe.

    He likened it to how material that gets retconned by later stuff loses its original intent, and it's actually better to render it non-canon in order to preserve it in its own little bubble where it can be appreciated on its own terms, instead of awkwardly trying to jam it into material that just doesn't gel with it.
     
  15. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2013
    I can appreciate that.
     
  16. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Obviously it's not a blanket statement; as has been pointed out in the last few posts, Star Wars continually changes its intentions all the time (going back to Vader and Luke's father being separate people in ANH), but it's a great observation on Pablo's part, and one I think is important to bear in mind when discussing canon.
     
    Outsourced and Xander Vos like this.
  17. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2016
    I don't like the idea of a "canon-until-contradicted" EU. Reminds me too much of the TCW-era. I couldn't bear to see large swathes of canon thrown out because some stupid film writer forgets Chewie died. Better to have the EU canon and have films take place after Legacy. Treat the era surrounding the films like Disney. Basically we release a post-Legacy film. The time between Legacy and the film won't be explored until after the film is released. Avoid any contradictions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
    Xander Vos likes this.
  18. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I just want to know how the post-NJO preserved the original intent of the NJO, because according to Lucas there were never supposed to be any Sith in the NJO, which made Denning's interpretation of things completely inaccurate.

    Lost Tribe of the Sith is such a solid story in its own right, that I don't see how it needs the payoff from the train wreck that is the post-NJO.
     
    Xander Vos likes this.
  19. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Actually, my understanding is that Lucas just refused to let them make the antagonists of the NJO a lost tribe of Sith. Especially as Lucas has also inserted Sith in the post-Endor timeline (Exar Kun - and technically, by extention, Kyp Durron) I'm not sure that's the same thing at all...

    EDIT - given indications I've seen that the basic sequel concept dates to the early '90s, I'd not be entirely surprised if the reason why the idea of an ancient Sith comeback was rejected in the NJO was due to the similarity with the movie plans, and the reason the same ideas were then brought into the storyline was a vague idea to make a version with Caedus and Jaina...

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  20. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I want to read the memos they prepared for Lucas to check off on.
     
  21. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Well, I finally saw The Last Jedi over the weekend and...

    ... it didn't change my view of the new SW canon. ;)
     
  22. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Thinking of bandwagons which were mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of people say the "prequels were terrible" or "the eu had lots of bad stuff and was so inconsistent" is very much an example of people just parroting current pop culture consensus. To be sure there are those like Red Letter Media who hate the prequels but can at least tell you cogently why they think they were bad and present fair arguments for that position.

    But most people aren't invested enough to even do that and so it makes very bitter and downright angry even when people say "the EU was garbage" or "if you liked prequels your basically immature or are just seeking attention"

    Very often people don't make their own opinions but simply follow group consensus.

    As for TLJ-I have made my opinion very clear and there seems to be a small minority that shares my take on the movie though far more are those that say they loved it, praise it for "upending expectations" or say it has great thematic and literary value(which I thinking is nonsensical).

    Regarding the long run-I do believe Disney will reboot the original six films at some point before the middle of the century. Barring some massive world event that renders movie making impossible or not a priority they will do it.

    Also since the post is farther back than I can edit it-I am looking forward to seeing the Trek novels hopefully go into the 25th century-STO has done 25th century stuff and I am looking forward to the Trek novels take on things now that the licensing issue has been resolved-hopefully.