PT Did The Prequels Make The Jedi Boring?

I know I'll get roasted for this, but it's a question I've mulled over for a while.

In the originals I was always under the impression that there were a few Jedi and that they kind of went around, nomad like, sorting evil folk out and the threat of the Jedi intervening was enough to quell most trouble.

The the prequels gave us 'Jedi Junior high' with the production teams kids waving super dangerous weapons around and looking a bit bemused. It also gave us massive light saber fights with loads of Jedi's, non of whom I can recall.

The battles between Obi Wan and Vader, and Luke and Vader out shone the prequel battles for stakes and you felt that they were actually fighting. The prequels were just flashing lights and flips. Oh, and talking. Lots and lots of talking.

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts in a fun way. No flaming

 

I think the PT made the Jedi vastly more interesting, by making them fallible.

The Jedi council becomes very arrogant in it's waning years, which is part of the reason for their downfall.

I can only think of one 'massive lightsaber fight with loads of Jedi', and that was Geonosis. That conflict felt appropriate, as it was before the Clones were ready, and showed that the Jedi were the only line of defence at the time.

 

Oh dear, another anti-Jedi thread as if we need more...

 

This should go in the criticisms thread

 

Oops. Didn't see the crit thread. Don't mind it being moved. Hadn't spotted an anti Jedi thread.

It was a genuine question. If there's other threads I also don't mind it being deleted.

 

I don't think they made them boring.
Showed them as more flawed and not so good? yes
But not boring.

I don't mind the flips.
Talking is not necessary bad.
The OT lightsaber battles all had dialogue.
I don't think the PT battles had lots and lots of talking.
The TPM battle didn't have any. Obi-wan just shouts NOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I thought the light saber fight with Obi-Wan and Vader in ANH looked a bit geriatric after watching ROTS. I'm glad I watched it in release order first.

I thought the Jedi were more interesting in the prequels, just because there were more of them and they were more fleshed out. I never read the EU, so the only Jedi examples I had before were Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader, and then Luke who was just kind of figuring it out.

I don't understand the Jedi Junior High thing. We had a short scene with kids in AOTC and ROTS, and then one other padawan was cut down by clone troopers. It looks like you wanted to keep that part a mystery perhaps? I liked the AOTC kids scene because it showed that Luke really had to start from the basics.

 

Definitely not an unpopular opinion. I think that is common thought. Hell, YouTube hates the PT but the comments under the IV duel are less than spectacular.

 

No, they made them more interesting.

Why do people always say that the Jedi in the PT just sit around and talk? If we want to criticize the PT for having people sitting around and talking, we should do the same for the OT.

Those scenes that may seem boring have meaning to the story.

 

Depends on which Jedi you look at.

Qui-Gon is the most interesting in the PT to me, but he was only in one movie and a bit of a maverick. He's what a Jedi should be Imo.

Obi-Wan was a little boring in TPM and AOTC, but I think he came out of his shell a bit in ROTS, and I love him in ANH (and his force ghost cameos).

Yoda was definitely more interesting to me in the OT. I'm not a huge fan of his AOTC incarnation, he seems like he is supposed to be very wise, but to me reads a little stilted.

Anakin is a unique case, because if you take into acount all six movies he is a very grey character. I would tweak some of his PT dialogue and acting, but generally he is a really interesting character to me. Lucas made him quite complex if you look at the entire six film arc, and while some of the characterisation leaves a little to be desired, he is quite a mythical figure. His darker tendencies I think are a big part of why he isn't boring.

I find a lot similar between Qui-Gon and Luke at ROTJ age. Luke really "returns" the Jedi to their former glory, it's too bad how the new ST has made his victory seem a bit short-lived.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority.

But it all depends on your point of view. (Worst line in the OT)

I maybe should have phrased theorising like question better.

I guess I just preferred the idea of mysterious drifters.

But each to their own eh? That's what's cool about Star Wars.

Edit:

Sorry HevyDevy hadnt seen your post as it posted as I was typing. Qui Gon could have been cool, but it would have been better if he was Obi Wan. He came across as that drifter type. Which is why its a shame he died. But ho-hum.

 

What do you mean by boring? They are supposed to look boring to others, because of all the suppression of the emotions. And that is what a Jedi supposed tp be: reserved, always cool, always balanced but that means flat. Typical Jedi of the Old Code: Obi Wan. I don't think he is so different on the OT. Always single-minded ad faithful to the cause, not to the people (ugh, he even pyshed Luke to kill his own father). Qui Gon is an exception, an outsider and Anakin is unique, as @HevyDevy said, he care first for the people and for the purposes (and he made mistakes because of that, but it happens also in the real world).
So if you ask that this conception of the Jedi Order is boring, well, not at all. Is interesting to see how the Order failed not only because the evil genius Palpatine, but because its own flaws.
.

 

Hmmm, interesting take Tonyg.

I liked Obi Wan in the originals more becuase he seemed to still have a youthful spark. Don't get me wrong, Ewan McGregor was perfect casting and I'm all over a new Obi Wan movie, I just felt that the way the Jedi's were presented as an entity wasn't very good.

Tonnes of lightsabers don't make everything interesting.

As for Anakin being unique? he just annoyed me. I really found Kylo Ren to be more what Anakin should have been. (No doubt controversial comment)

 

I kinda disagree with you, as having found and read that thread, it just seems like a bin for criticism with no real structure. As if crits are tolerated and not allowed.

Its also a thread where all the people with issues seem to just be preaching to each other. I'd prefer to interact with people with different views, which is happening here.

So thanks for the honest responses to my question.

 

I found every scene involving two Jedi (or Force users) extremely interesting, and the more important the characters got, the better the scenes. Like HBO's Rome, every scene with Caesar was a peach.

 

Hmmm, a strange argument .... Did I mention something about lightsabers? They flaws have nothing to do with their skills with the lightsaber. They flaws are obvious in Ep.3: manipulation, spying, political intrigue. Those are Sith methods, this is no the Jedi way. It began in AOTC, but few people paid attention to that, because in AOTC there were only traces of that.

I have a peculiar opinion of Obi Wan. He is the ulimate Jedi (but I already said that for me they have to be boring, single-minded people that always follow the rules). And he conserved those qualities in the OT. For me it was horrendous how he pushed Luke to kill his own father even when he already knew that Luke is aware who Darth Vader really is. But the Jedi are so dedicated to their purposes that they become merciless. Luke is like his father: he refused to do that.

And that why I like Anakin: he always tried to care about those he loves, he is full of emotion and passion (Padme would never love somebody like Obi Wan, but is obvious for me why she falls in love with Anakin). He is much more human character, he can feel anger, but he can feel love. He could be vulnerable and strong, well that’s intriguing, not boring. Yes, he fell. He was the tragic hero and I like the idea that Lucas created him like that.

Kylo Ren pretends to be conflicted as postmodern teenager, but practically what are his problems: Was he a slave? Not at all, he had family and was free. He hadn't leave his mother, he just run away. Boring and childish. For what? To follow some teen fetish of Vader wannabe… o, give me a break. And the most important thing: he killed his father with practically no purpose. This is the ultimate sin in almost all human cultures. Luke refused to kill his father. Vader received his redemption by refusing to kill his son, moreover, he sacrificed his life to save his son. And now this with Kylo Ren is unthinkable. I'm amazed how this fact is accepted by the fans. Lucas' SW were always moral oriented stories. Ep.7 with this horrendous act, not at all.

 

Hmm, a good point. Maybe I would have gotten that if the dialogue werent so cringey.

And , no you didnt' mention light sabers but that was a general criticism. Yeah Obi Wan was a total ass at the end. When it all came out about his lies and what have you. I liked that about the character.

Why is it bad that kylo, with everything going for him is seduced by the dark side? I've known people and you read all the time about well loved, looked after kids, going off the rails and ending up doing nasty stuff. Just because he wasn't a slave doesn't make it wrong. And how do we know how his life was. From the sounds of it, Han wasn't a good dad.

Again though, I liked your point.

 

RE: the actual question here. I love, love, love the somewhat dorky Jedi Order in the PT, but really, all of my reasons for it are just my personal reaction to the PT so...I kinda don't know what to tell you. It's not like you're wrong and I'm right, or vice versa. I think it made the Jedi way more interesting and complex, I liked that they were flawed and brave and impressive and made mistakes and had feelings and conflict, and I think showing their relationship to the larger government was interesting to see. I had no problem with the "talking" they did. I completely disagree that the battles had no "stakes", but I'm too lazy to rewrite out my giant dissertation about Obi-Wan v Anakin, or Maul again, hahaha.

I already wrote this in like 12 other threads today, but the "it didn't look realistic" thing to me is personally not a big deal. It's Crazy Space Fantasyland where the Jedi are at their peak, before the world collapses and evil takes over. I don't really care if a given duel has a gritty realism to it, speaking for myself.

So ultimately...It is what it is. I think the Jedi in the PT are awesome. If you don't, that's OK.

 

AprilMayJune The beauty of art. Its all subjective.

 

Thank you for that. My example with the slavery was a comparison between Kylo and Anakin. Anakin had a really rough life in a very literal way (as for example the young people in the so called Third World have it even today) but Kylo looks more like those kids in the First World who are pretending to have problems in front of the people who even don't have enough to eat. Metaphorically speaking, of course. To have a careless dad (not abusive!) is not the same as to be a slave, after all. Is not that Kylo didn't have problems, is that I just can feel any empathy for him. I could feel empathy for the ex-slave, raised in a Order of warriors insecure young man who really misses his mother and who is desperate for love and emotion (yes, I'm a woman) but the only thoughts about Kylo Ren is to send him in some classic European old high school with strict discipline and order just to make him come to his senses. Maybe because I 'm not a teenager (since.. err.. too much time) .

About the dialogue: for me is even cringe in the OT. Is Space Opera, after all , as AprilMayJune already has pointed out. Even I find more interesting lines in the PT. But they should look antiquated eve in that aspect because this is the Golden Past of the OT.

 

Oh, indeed. I will throw down in defense of the cheesy, old-timey PT dialogue ANY day of the week. Love it. I know it is loathed by many, and I absolutely do not care. I think I get what Lucas was trying to do there, and at least for me, it worked.

 

I hate sand

 

You know what? I can't even hate on that scene, really. It's dorky as hell, but, this is a franchise that gave us "I'm Luke Skywalker and I'm here to rescue you." I mean, I'm pretty much always laughing at these characters for one reason or another. I love that they don't even realize how they sound.

I wrote a giant wall o' text a few weeks back about the dialogue in the first 6 movies (I think it's buried in the dark depths of the TFA post now.) But basically, my position is: Star Wars is overwrought, hilarious B-movie dialogue and it always, always has been to one degree or another. Everyone in the Star Wars universe is supposed to be kind of oblivious to the fact that they're living in an insane fictional universe, though. And that's what makes it so charming, goofy, and great to me. It killed me last go-round when people said stuff like "Lucas ruined everything for me; I didn't want to laugh at Star Wars!" and I was like, "...wait, what? Were we all ever NOT laughing at Star Wars?! Have you people even seen a Star Wars movie before?"

I will do what I must! He will join us or die! I am a Jedi like my father before me! Unlimited POWAH! I truly, deeply love you! I was once a Jedi Knight! I mean, LOL. These characters are ridiculous. I have a total soft spot for old timey/B-movie dialogue though, and I will fully own up to my weird tastes. I know why people hated the dialogue, I really do. But...I didn't.

 

I find Obi-Wan to be boring as hell in the OT. The only cool part of him was his past which is Ewan's Obi-Wan. In the OT, he is just an archetype wizard that shows up to be an ass to Luke. Kill your daddy or we are doomed, certain POV, etc. In the PT, he has an arc from a young by the books student, to a I'm learning from mistakes and trying to be better than I was attitude. To me, young Obi-Wan is the BEST Obi-Wan.

 

...OK, so you almost lost a limb just now, because I thought you wrote "PT" in your first sentence and I was like WTF I THOUGHT WE WERE BUDS, MAN. WHY. Phew.

Edit: ...even though I do still disagree with you on OT Kenobi. I am a lover of all things Obi-Wan. (That sounds filthy. I'm leaving it as is.)