PT Did the scene of Anakin killing younglings affect your perception of him?

That's true, we did see him kill the separatists. However, in my mind killing the Jedi would've been different-since he was one of them. In a sense it would've been like he was killing his family. It seems like the fact we only see clones killing Jedi and never him is deliberate. I suppose it could be to emphasize the fact that there might've still been good in him, or intended for us to pity him rather than hate him. Which I get I suppose. Not sure, but I agree with The_Phantom_Calamari that those reasons are also why they didn't portray Darth Vader as all bada**, so much as more conflicted and in emotional pain. I mean, after he killed all the separatists on Mustafar, there were tears in his eyes. To me that didn't say that he was now just some stone cold killer, but that he was still not proud of what he "had to do, in order to save Padme as well as the galaxy..."

 

that's not really what my post was about. sidious ordered vader to kill everyone in the jedi temple and the separtists on mustafar, and after only then would he be strong enough with the dark side to save padme. so it wouldn't have made sense for vader to have the clone troopers kill everyone (that he lead the killing, and do much of it himself was part of the order from sidious). i was talking about how i liked my idea of how things went down from the OT better when i originally saw ROTS. i've long since made a lot of peace with most of my PT problems, and at this point i don't know if i like my old idea the best or not.

in terms of the jedi temple, i think they could have shown a bit more, like idk him killing a couple adult jedi, as i'm sure there still were some in the temple.

 

As a kid? No, the heightened moral implications didn't really hit me then. Keep in mind, I was growing up with both the PT and the Harry Potter books and movies; I was accustomed to seeing kids around my age facing off against murderous adults pretty much as equals. Now that I'm older, watching Anakin kill a bunch of defenseless kids, especially when they're looking to him for protection, makes him irredeemable in my eyes. I literally have to disconnect my mindset from the PT in order to accept, let alone be moved by, his redemption in Return of the Jedi.

 

He's already, at the very least, an accomplice in the murder of millions, if not billions of people, yet killing a roomful of kids is going overboard? I find this interesting.

 

There was that brief CCTV footage that proceeded the heartbreakingly delivered line from Obi-Wan ("It can't be....It can't be!) I think Vader killed an adult in that part.

 

I get that. There were likely millions of children on Alderaan, but actively slaughtering a roomful of kids is direct and visceral. It's not passive; each one of those younglings had to be individually killed.

 

"Do not hesitate, show no mercy." Vader was following Palpatine's orders. Kid or no, he was wiping out the Jedi Knights. This was what we were always going to see, and this was what Vader always was, even when his character was redeemed in 1983.

 

yeah, but it was so tiny and difficult to see. although we can blame obi-wan for that, what with his fast-forwarding and finally his "i can't watch anymore."

 

I was glad they went there. I took the Tusken slaughter very seriously, as he killed innocents then as well. The Younglings were an extension of that. I'm really glad that Anakin was shown to truly cross the line into pure, unadulterated evil.

I actually wish they'd taken it even further. As in had Anakin actually be the one responsible for killing Padme.

 

Well, he was. He broke her heart. He broke it so hard she died. That's way darker and more messed up than if he had literally just strangled her to death.

 

I find Padme's "broken heart" death to be laughable, embarrassing, and severely out of character for her. I choose to cling to the desperate hope that Palpatine somehow orchestrated it through the Force, especially since he's shown knowing about her passing before anyone not there could've possibly known.

I'd much rather Anakin lashed out at her in a fit of rage, inflicted great damage, and Threepio, along with a medical droid, was able to retrieve her during the the Obi/Anakin fight and deliver the twins before she passed on.

 

I believe in earlier versions of the script Anakin's attack on Padme on Mustafar was far more brutal, with her being flung against her ship via the Force. Obviously it was toned down later, maybe to do with keeping the film child friendly, perhaps. ROTS is already pretty dark for Star Wars.

Personally I kind of wish Padme's death had been kept as the result of her injuries, but I can understand why Lucas and co. might have felt that full on spousal murder was inappropriate territory for the franchise.

 

How was Padme dying of a broken heart out of character? By the end of ROTS Anakin was pretty much all she had left.

 

Anakin killing a bunch of defenceless kids is like the statement that a single death is a tragedy and a million deaths is a statistic.

 

She has her babies, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Bail Organa.

 

I know right? What's the point of a young woman living on when her abusive husband turns bad. Might as well just die.

Sure she was a powerful, good politician at a time when they were desperately needed for the burgenoning rebellion.
Sure she was a new mother of twin babies who, in the face of their father's turn, needed their mama more than ever.
Sure she had a loving family and community waiting for her in Naboo.

But of course, none of that matters when she loses her man. Naturally.

 

Oh please, spare me the senseless drivel. Anakin was far from abusive to her, the only moments he even laid a hand on her was at the very end when he honestly thought she had betrayed him but he was so far gone at the point Anakin the person was pretty much dead. The love of her life turned to the dark side, choked her out of misguided sense of betrayal, the republic she fought hard to protect had collapsed in on itself and the new Empire was definitely not a place to spread her ideals Palpatine would have most likely killed her if she didn't die on Polis Massa or if not at the very least silenced her (the senate dissolves anyway so its not like it matters). There was no place for her in the new era, the loss of Anakin was enough to cause her to stop wanting to live, it's space fantasy at its finest.

 

Yoda and Obi-Wan lost everything. Why didn't they lose the will to live?
So why didn't her daughter Leia lose the will to live after her entire planet blew up?
Why didn't Shmi Skywalker die immediately after Anakin was gone?

Tell me how a hitherto extremely strong willed woman, a woman of action, a woman who spent her life standing up to the Forces of wrong, a woman he was now about to be a mother, suddenly "loses the will to live" just because her newish hubbie acts up?

On what planet is that a defendable story development for a character Lucas painted from movie one as strong, capable and resilient?

 

Anakin killing the Tuskens (women and children too) in AOTC is enough to convince me Anakin could kill younglings in ROTS if he was fired up about a cause. "I will be the most powerful Jedi ever. I will even be able to stop people from dying." To be all powerful like Anakin expressed in AOTC meant Anakin had to become more than a Jedi.

Anakin was terrified about losing loved ones. He lost his mother and he was incredibly angry about it. He thought he was going to lose Padme, so he once again justified murder. He wanted to do something this time to avert death. Anakin dehumanised the younglings just as he had dehumanised the Tuskens.

 

"I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM."

"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"

Anakin needed to see the Tuskens as animals in order to slaughter even the innocent. And he needed to see the younglings as the byproduct of the evil Jedi order. When the dark side consumed him he could justify just about anything.

 

No. He already said in AOTC that he killed not only the men but the woman and children.

As Emperor Palpatine told him "Do what must be done. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the Dark side to save Padme"

At least it was dark and I give them credit for going in all the way.

 

How, all these years later, did I fail to consider that important caveat?? Obviously I recognized that he'd turned to the Dark Side to save Padme, but I have never considered that Anakin was diving headlong into the Dark Side so quickly in order to "charge up" with enough power to save her.

For those people who say his actual turn was too quick, this answers that claim in a way I didn't consider.

 

Yoda and Obi-Wan were not personally attached, much less married, so there's a slight difference here. They went into hiding, probably all the time hoping that after a while the remaining Jedi might somehow regroup and help the Alliance overthrow the Empire, which did happen in the end.
We don't really know how much attachment Leia felt towards Alderaan. We saw her there only as a baby. For all we know she left that planet at an early age. We also don't know if her foster parents were still on Alderaan when it was destroyed, unless it's in some EU book. In the movies we know nothing about that. Or she might even have had some disagreement with her foster parents over politics or whatever and ran away from them as a teenager, having become estranged from them. The fact is we don't know how strong her attachment to Alderaan and its inhabitants really was. Just because you were born or grew up in a place doesn't necessarily mean you have to be strongly attached to it.
As for Shmi, Anakin just left to become a Jedi, he didn't die. She knew he would have a better life than on Tatooine and was happy for him. Why would anyone at that point have assumed that he would never return? That the Tusken got her first was pure bad luck. Had Anakin arrived a month earlier they would have been reunited and she would have lived. So in TPM she never really "lost" him.
But I agree with you that the "broken heart" story isn't that plausible and I never liked it either. I would also like to think that Sidious was somehow behind her death. If the dark side can be used to "cheat death" then why not cause death as well, even over a huge distance? Hard to say. A medical droid would know nothing about the dark side of course, so he found no medical diagnosis. In any case I prefer the dark side explanation over the "broken heart" one.
Anakin killing the younglings, to be honest it didn't really shock me. Yes, the scene was very dark, but what he did was certainly not out of character for him. He was already a Sith (at least for the most part) at that point, and Sith are not exactly known for being kind-hearted and loving individuals. However I do feel Anakin's turn was a little too quick. All Sidious told him was to "do what must be done" and to "show no mercy". He didn't explicitly order him to kill younglings. Anakin at that point might have asked "what about the younglings?". Who knows, Sidious just might have said "they are too young to be dangerous, you can leave them alive and we will deal with them later". His orders were a little vague and open to some interpretation. At least as far as I remember he never directly said "kill everyone in the Jedi temple". I don't think it's in the novel either, but correct me if I'm wrong!

 

I use to think it was a little too quick as well. Then I put all the pieces together and realize that Anakin's desperation drove him to the Dark Side. His desperation to save Padme from dying in child birth, which was coming up soon.

The final piece of the puzzle just clicked with me recently, thanks to Skywalker Family, in this very thread, highligting the final part of Sidious' statement:

Anakin: Just help me save Padmé's life. I can't live without her.
Sidious: To cheat death is the power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret.


Sidious: ...First, I want you to go to the Jedi Temple. We will catch them off balance. Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the Dark Side to save Padmé.

From Anakin's POV he had no choice but to move very quickly. He was convinced that turning to the Dark Side was the only thing he could do to save Padme, and with her pregnancy being so far a long, he needed to do it NOW, charge up his Dark Side powers as swiftly as possible, so he's be strong enough to work with Palpatine on discovering the secret of immortality so they could bring Padme back, if she did die.

 

I agree with all that. Anakin at that point was desperate, so he would really have done anything at all Sidious told him to save Padmé. That's why I don't think him killing younglings went too far from his point of view. It's just this little thing I noticed, that Sidious considered the adult Jedi to be enemies but not necessarily untrained younglings, so he never mentioned those. Of course being a Sith he wouldn't have cared one way or the other, and murder is part of a Sith's life. I'm glad Lucas added the scene to show us how far Vader would go, that there was no turning back for him. It's just that for Vader's purposes killing all the "real" Jedi (after all younglings aren't even Padawan yet, much less Jedi) and leaving the kids alone would still have been following Sidious' order and still have given him enough dark side energy. But I completely understand why he chose to go all the way and doing maybe more killing than was directly ordered by Sidious, instead of risking not going far enough to the dark side and losing Padmé. He needed to be sure. So while that scene might not have been strictly necessary from a storytelling perspective, it does add a lot more impact and gives more insight into how evil the Sith really are. Until then we have only seen adults killed (except the Tusken of course, but those were "animals" anyway), but now we see that a Sith will literally stop at nothing at all to gain more power.