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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Did Vader really kill Obi-Wan? I dont think so.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by BLY37, Jun 12, 2005.

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  1. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    If you have seen ROTS, Yoda explains how he has training for Obi-Wan and that Qui-Gon has shown the path for immortality. Well, Obi-Wan faught Vader, not to win, but as a distraction so Luke and the bunch could get away. When Obi-Wan saw them heading for the Falcon he smiles, holds his saber up as if he were concentrating and I beleive he becomes one with the force because Vader never touched his body, his robe was not cut he just vanishes. I beleive Obi-Wan gave himself to the force and he actually never faced a real death. As for Yoda, he died, his body lay still for a second or 2 then he vanishes. Obi-Wan never left any body behind. He just vanishes into thin air, that is why Vader steps on him, and there is nothing but empty clothes left behind. So I beleive Obi-Wan gave himself to the force and the teachings that Qui-Gon gave to Yoda and Yoda passed on to Obi-Wan was that they could merge with the force when they chose to do so. The reason Yoda held on as long as he did was so he could explain to Luke, what Luke needed to know, Yoda eventually spoke his last breath giving Luke information about his family, leaving Obi-Wan to explain the rest. I think then Obi-Wan (after talking with Luke) reached into the force finding Yoda and helped him to retain his identity after he merged with the force. Obi-Wan IMO never onced faced a mortal death.
     
  2. DARTHMORDOR

    DARTHMORDOR Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    for the most part I agree. obi does give himself to the force. but his body did die. there is no more body. he is absorbed completly into the force. that is why he closes his eyes he has to concentrate to be able to do this.
     
  3. nknx2005

    nknx2005 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Apr 10, 2005
    his robe is cut up. The film just doesn't show it that well.
     
  4. -nada-

    -nada- Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 20, 2004
    I think the phrase that Obi Wan used while entering the club in AOTC kind of foreshadowed things--"...you're going to be the death of me."--so, yeah, I think Vader definitely killed Obi Wan. :)
     
  5. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 17, 2003
    I agree that Obi-Wan gives himself to the Force, and that he seemingly vanishes into thin air.

    However, his physical self is killed.
    "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possible imagine."
    Vader does indeed strike him down--and get his final revenge. However the revenge doesn't really work in his favor.

    Obi-Wan and Anakin have two epic duels in the saga. In both of them, Obi-Wan warns Anakin about something, and both times Anakin pays little attention to the advice. This connection leads to Anakin's failure in both fights. In Revenge, we watch as Kenobi tells Anakin not to jump--the boy jumps and as a result he nearly dies. His old life is extinguished as he is engulfed by flames. In A New Hope, Kenobi tells Vader how powerful he will become--Vader doesn't believe it and proceeds to kill him anyway. Kenobi's physical life is ended, but he goes on living as a Force ghost.

    -Seldon

     
  6. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    I still think Obi-Wan knew going into the fight he was going to give himself to the force. I beleive that he evaporated into the force just before the saber hit him because he concentrated. Now Yoda didn't go into the force until he passed. Obi-Wan concentrated and it was a simultanious thing. I still think Obi-Wan never faced a physical death, yes his body dissapeared but that is because it was obsorbed into the force. But we may never know. We are all allowed to have our own opinions and this is mine.
     
  7. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 17, 2003
    Escape was never Kenobi's plan. His part was finished, he had to confront Vader one last time and then he was over. It was then time to pass Luke to Yoda.

    -Seldon
     
  8. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    One of the scenes that was not in the movie was where Qui-Gon tells Yoda he can teach him the ability to merge with the force AT WILL this tells me that Kenobi could merge with the force without a natural death. I'm sure this scene will make it on the DvD. Along with a few other deleted scenes.
     
  9. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 17, 2003
    I think you might be reading too much into that one particular line. They can merge with the Force, at will--once they are killed/died. That is the true meaning. They don't do so before death, only after.

    It seems like Obi-Wan disappears rather quickly, the blade moves very fast and then suddenly he vanishes.

    -Seldon
     
  10. Alanikan

    Alanikan Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 5, 2005
    I think your physical self needs to cease in order to give yourself to the Force. It could be a simultanous action: Body dies...goes right to the Force. Just like Yoda did.
     
  11. DarthSyphus

    DarthSyphus Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 26, 2005
    The problem with that theory is that the imperials were planning to let the Falcon leave anyway. So, perhaps Kenobi distracted Vader, but Vader wouldn't have stopped the Falcon anyway. His distraction was in vain. The Imperials had planted the beacon on the Falcon and just pretended to chase it while waiting for it to lead them to the rebel base.
     
  12. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

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    Aug 24, 2002
    Yes Obi-wan dies in ANH. He let's himself be killed so that he could give Luke something to fight for and also still help him.
     
  13. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    Well it just seams to easy, maybe he did let vader kill him, but if that were the case, did u see Yoda stop to focus before he died, Obi-Wan stoped, held his saber and Focused. I think he vansished way to fast. So he was either focusing or Praying I HOPE THIS FRIGGIN WORKS lol...
     
  14. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 17, 2003
    Qui-Gon has a long moment to pause and meditate before he is killed. He gets on his knees and connects with the Force. It was an accident, but that is how he became immortal. Obi-Wan and Yoda are trained by Master Jinn and they now know how to preserve themselves.

    Obi-Wan had to be killed before he could become a ghost.
    That is why he had to be struck down, before he could become more powerful.



    Darth-Seldon

     
  15. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    That is not how Qui-Gon Became Immortal, he learned the ability after he was dead from what I understand, if that were the case, his body would have dissapeared and it didn't. Qui-Gon was just meditatiing as all the Jedi do in their spair time hehe so like I stated, Obi-Wan merged thats my final answer
     
  16. cbrowns4812

    cbrowns4812 Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 27, 2005
    Vader certainly killed Obi-Wan. Obviously, if you watch Obi-Wan's facial expressions, the fight is not going "well" for him. I'm not saying Vader would have to win without Obi-Wan's quitting, but it was certainly not easy. When Obi-Wan eyes Luke watching the battle, he looks back to Vader and smiles. That isn't a "ok, now I'm going to join the Force so I can teach Luke" look, it seems to me to be a "alright, Vader. Strike me down in front of Luke here, and not only will I become one with the Force, but I'll be able to continue teaching Luke" look.
     
  17. DARTHMORDOR

    DARTHMORDOR Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    its a "I will become more powerful then you can possibly imagine" look.

    then he fools vader and the audience into beliving he is dead.

    but nope he's alive. trains luke, hangs out with yoda.
     
  18. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    Obi-Wan was trained by Qui-Gon as we learn in the PT to merge with the force AT WILL if you listen, Obi-Wan wanted Vader to see what he was capable of and he gave himself to the force that is why he dissapeared, if Vader would have killed him he would have cut him in half, and there woulda been a body there for at least a few seconds but Kenobi dissapears u dont even see him get cut. He gave himself to the force so he could be with Luke anytime anyplace Luke was at.
     
  19. Master_Yoder

    Master_Yoder Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jun 16, 2005
    You saw what happened to yoda? That happened to obi1
     
  20. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    Yoda actually died. and for like a second or two he laid there before he faded.
     
  21. DARTHMORDOR

    DARTHMORDOR Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    well perhaps yoda just lost conscisness before he died.
     
  22. BLY37

    BLY37 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 10, 2005
    Well we all have our own opinions and this one is mine, i just think we will learn more in future releases of the films.
     
  23. WLDB

    WLDB Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jan 11, 2004
    Why did Obi Wan give himself up? Its fair to say he thought Vader was beyond help. So why not try to kill him?
     
  24. 2poor4hyperspace

    2poor4hyperspace Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 30, 2004
    I always thought that OB1 dissapeared slightly before Vader got him. I would like to believe that he sacrificed himself.
     
  25. MasterWindu23

    MasterWindu23 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 29, 2005
    i thought that the blue thing of obi-wan was just his ghost, but now i understand what it is and why obi-wan allowed vader to "kill" him.
     
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