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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Did Vader really say...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by rpvee, Oct 18, 2007.

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  1. AnakinSucks

    AnakinSucks Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Even if he was "saying" something, it would be like saying something in the gym when you are trying to complete a heavy lift.

    Again, just instinctive when under physical strain.


     
  2. AnakinSucks

    AnakinSucks Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 15, 2005
    I bet many would have liked to see it though.

    The duel would have been OK in my book if it was not for the Dooku effect, and I like Dooku.

    I personally think that a duel that went went smoothly with some major taunts and more raw force moves from Anakin would have went down nicely.

     
  3. SithMaster_69

    SithMaster_69 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 26, 2007
    Yeah, I think it would have been better to see Vader owning OB1. That way we see just how powerful he has become since he gives himself to the Darkside. Perfect.

    I think he was using...Dun Moch?
     
  4. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    You guys are both on-point. And Vader was Dun Moch-ing his arse off. Seeing a few barrels get tossed, and his general 'pwning' of Kenobi would have been sweet. Kenobi wasn't supposed to be able to beat Vader, so the fight SHOULD NOT have appeared equal. Having Kenobi "get lucky" and win on Mustafar would have made ANH's "Luck dialogue" even better.
     
  5. Veloz

    Veloz Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Aug 30, 2004
    I always thought Vader was saying the "fudge you" to Obi Wan [face_laugh]

    I dont think Lucas should have cut the Vader/Obi duel at all, but that's just my opinion [face_whistling]
     
  6. anakinandpadmedoomed

    anakinandpadmedoomed Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 27, 2007
    I agree that he should not of cut the duel..I want to see it uncut.
     
  7. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    I was surprised Lucas didn't expand it on the DVD given that he decided to expand the far less important Podracing sequence in TPM.
     
  8. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Me too.
    How we ended-up only getting more of the dumb stuff will forever elude me.
     
  9. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Yeah, you said that before. It would be a blatant contradiction. I don't see how that would be "better" unless you're looking for contradictions to laugh at.
     
  10. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 19, 1999
    It would show that Obi-Wan continued to underestimate Vader after having made the mistake of thinking him easy to defeat once before. Luck (and Vader's overconfidence) was what won the Mustafar duel for him, no matter how you slice it.

    I still have trouble seeing it as anything more than a grunt. He's enjoying himself while choking Obi, and he has this sort of primal teeth-baring grin to demonstrate it.
     
  11. SithMaster_69

    SithMaster_69 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 26, 2007
    But that would be funny, ironic, even poetic: here he says he doesn't believe in luck, but thats what saves him on Mustafar.[face_laugh]

    I still think he was saying"******* die!" the more I lkko at it, slow it down & such it appears that way.But there should have been dialogue during much of the duel. I think it would have been better. Vader taunting OB1 about what he did in the Temple, how he was better,how OB1 was no Qui-gon & was a fool. Taunting him to give into his anger bc that way he'll have a chance. Messing with his head as well as beating him down.

    But yes, I agree that he was enjoying choking OB1.Shows that there definately was no love on Vader's part.

    Again, I totally agree that they should not have appeared equal. He's no longer Anakin. He's VADER now. He's given himself totally to the Darkside, and his fighting style should have reflected that. He should have been much stronger, faster, aggressive that little Force push should not have been even, he should have pushed OB1 across that room like a leaf in a hurricane. Without being moved himself.

    He should have done that, smiled & said," That was just a little taste of the power of the Darkside."
     
  12. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    But that would be funny, ironic, even poetic: here he says he doesn't believe in luck, but thats what saves him on Mustafar. --Bingo.

    Again, I totally agree that they should not have appeared equal. He's no longer Anakin. He's VADER now. --I totally agree.
     
  13. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    Darth's only a master of evil. Ben demonstrated that for all of his vaunted power Darth Vader in RotS is but the learner.
     
  14. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Meh...

    If they had been made in order, sorry assed Ben "I'm only around because of Alec G." Kenobi wouldn't have made it out of TPM. And if by some stupid design of the maker he did survive TPM, then Vader would've kicked his ass all over Mustafar... wait.

    Vader already DID that... until the maker pulled a "Calvin and Hobbes" and whizzed all over CT Vader's legacy by editing out his force-feats and dialogue.

    :p
     
  15. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    Pure assumption. Maul also wouldn't exist if not "for Alec G."

    Eh, it just makes blatently clear that regardless of what Lucas says, OT Vader > PT Vader.
     
  16. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Maul wasn't tied to CT-Kenobi.

    And I agree, CT-Vader was everything that PT Vader wished he could be.:p
     
  17. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    If not for the OT, TPM would have never been made. :p

    I don't know, PT Vader lacked the ambition to even dream of being OT Vader. ;)
     
  18. grimlockbedi

    grimlockbedi Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 16, 2006
    How do you know this stuff was filmed and edited out? Just curious. Is it written about somewhere? Or does someone discuss it during the DVD commentaries?
     
  19. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Yoda would say, "Much to learn you still have."
     
  20. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Huh? When was the "once before"?

    I'm not seeing the luck per se. Rather it's strength in the light side.
     
  21. SithMaster_69

    SithMaster_69 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    May 26, 2007
    No,it was luck(& GL)& OB1's experience. But more Vader's arrogance that allowed OB1 to win. If he knew how to remain focused in his rage, then the story would have turned out a lot differently.
     
  22. Obi-Chron

    Obi-Chron Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 11, 2003
    The shooting script depicts Palpatine trying to facilitate some jealousy between Anakin and Obi-Wan, accusing Padme of spending a lot of time with Kenobi. And when you think of it, when Kenobi last sees Anakin on Coruscant as he is leaving to find and destroy Greivous, they are best of friends and mutually admiring. Then -- BOOM -- Anakin is a Sith, Kenobi witnesses the Temple massacre on holo-records and Anakin hates him??? :confused:

    So I think the duel we see had those script elements in it as far as Hayden's performance is concerned. It makes sense with Anakin's reaction upon seeing Obi-Wan at the top of the ramp on Padme's ship -- rage, a rage taken out on his preggers wife.

    Just my opinion. Anyone have a better take on this?
     
  23. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Right Chron, early in the movie Sidious, er Palp's originally told Anakin; without naming Padme and Kenobi directly, that there were rumors in the Senate about the two afore-mentioned... To which Anakin said 'that was impossible', and Palpatine quipped something akin to 'nobody is to be trusted', setting up the "I sense Obi Wan..." to have more impact.

    There are spots, bits and pieces to ROTS where the actors' intensity and delivery aren't in sync because of the reshoots. Many people have asked me for where and how to the edits to Mustafar... I am compiling ALL the resources... give me a little time and I will start a thread on it. One thing to do in the meantime, watch Mustafar at 2x the normal speed, and watch it at -1x the normal speed (1st slow motion option) You'll see that Vader paced that entire confrontation, you'll see much clearer Vader's facial epression's of utter disgust, and malice. You'll see that Vader beats on Kenobi, sure they have moments where they struggle and Kenobi does land the two kicks... but aside from those two moves and Force-Push-Block-Throw-Back... Vader dominated the fight.


    After you done that, watch it again at full speed.
    The way the final version was re-cut and edited makes them appear more as equals. The choreography was well done, and it distracts you from realizing that Vader pushed the fight from one end of the strong-hold to the banks of the Mustafar river. Oh, why didn't Vader just float the platform up the hill after Kenobi? It was a hover craft you know.
     
  24. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    One possible reason why ROTS Anakin may have been watered down:

    VADER: When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.

    Making Anakin excessively uber-powerful in ROTS creates a conflict with the OT.
     
  25. grimlockbedi

    grimlockbedi Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Sounds cool.

    Some of what I have been reading here lately seems to indicate that ROTS may have been planned (and even shot) to be quite different than what we ended up seeing, only to be changed at the last minute (which sort of ties into some of the charges people have been making about GL in the "Sercret History of Star Wars" thread...but that's a whole different topic...)
     
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